Pages: 1 2  Next -- Posted by StraitjacketJunky at 6:06 am on July 3, 2009 Now for the record, I'm not implying that all creationists think this way. This is for the ones that do. 1. Why is the idea of the universe happening at random, which may have been the result of multiple big bangs occurring until something was formed by chance, so much harder to believe than the idea of an omnipotent being creating said universe, plus Heaven and Hell? Even though that god is so much greater than the universe? 2. Why is the idea of your god so much more plausible than the idea of any other of the hundreds of gods and religious figures? 3. Why can't your feelings and your faith just be subjective and imaginary? 3.A Why are they any different than the feelings of members of other religions?   -- Posted by dilly62301 at 6:08 am on July 3, 2009 let me think for a minute  i'll get back to u -- Posted by StraitjacketJunky at 6:12 am on July 3, 2009 Quote: from dilly62301 at 6:08 am on July 3, 2009 let me think for a minute i'll get back to u Fair enough. -- Posted by Dexter Ward at 6:39 am on July 3, 2009 My mom said: 1 because I can feel god in my heart so I know that's what the case is.2 all the other religions were made by humans while Christians follow the only one really created by god. 3 Because I just know its true. That's the best I could get out of her. -- Posted by StraitjacketJunky at 9:06 am on July 3, 2009 Quote: from HarrySunderland at 6:39 am on July 3, 2009 My mom said: 1 because I can feel god in my heart so I know that's what the case is.2 all the other religions were made by humans while Christians follow the only one really created by god. 3 Because I just know its true. That's the best I could get out of her. Oh, to be Christian and naive again. You must have the worst time with your mumsie. -- Posted by Dexter Ward at 10:38 am on July 3, 2009 Quote: from StraitjacketJunky at 12:06 pm on July 3, 2009 Quote: from HarrySunderland at 6:39 am on July 3, 2009 My mom said:    1 because I can feel god in my heart so I know that's what the case is.2 all the other religions were made by humans while Christians follow the only one really created by god. 3 Because I just know its true.    That's the best I could get out of her. Oh, to be Christian and naive again.   You must have the worst time with your mumsie. Actually she doesn't give a shit what I believe,  I could walk around reading a satanic bible and she wouldn't blink an eye.  I do however have to pretend I'm a good Sunday school boy when I'm around the rest of the family or I will get all hell from her because they bitch at her about it. -- Posted by exceedinglyrare at 10:46 am on July 3, 2009 Point that (a) that was three questions and (b) not all "(Judeo)Christians" are creationists. Actually, at this point, I'd say that the vast majority in the world aren't creationists. -- Posted by StraitjacketJunky at 10:57 am on July 3, 2009 Quote: from exceedinglyrare at 10:46 am on July 3, 2009 Point that (a) that was three questions and (b) not all "(Judeo)Christians" are creationists. Actually, at this point, I'd say that the vast majority in the world aren't creationists. (a)   Wow. Hahahahahaahah! Wow, that was stupid of me. I made that title first, then thought up the last question 1/2 later.   (b)   While that's true that a Judeo-Christians are creationists, creationists are not Judeo-Christians. Just as how white is a race but race isn't white.   Which is why I said "creationists in general". I wont edit my post until you see it for yourself, just so you know I'm not lying or anything. edit: So do you have any answers to my questions? -- Posted by Forever Angel at 11:08 am on July 3, 2009 Quote: from StraitjacketJunky at 12:57 pm on July 3, 2009 While that's true that a Judeo-Christians are creationists, creationists are not Judeo-Christians. Just as how white is a race but race isn't white. That doesn't make any sense to me. All Judeo-Christians are NOT creationists any more than all creationists are Judeo-Christians. -- Posted by exceedinglyrare at 11:30 am on July 3, 2009 Quote: from StraitjacketJunky at 1:57 pm on July 3, 2009 Quote: from exceedinglyrare at 10:46 am on July 3, 2009 Point that (a) that was three questions and (b) not all "(Judeo)Christians" are creationists. Actually, at this point, I'd say that the vast majority in the world aren't creationists. (a) Wow. Hahahahahaahah! Wow, that was stupid of me. I made that title first, then thought up the last question 1/2 later. (b) While that's true that a Judeo-Christians are creationists, creationists are not Judeo-Christians. Just as how white is a race but race isn't white. Which is why I said "creationists in general". I wont edit my post until you see it for yourself, just so you know I'm not lying or anything. edit: So do you have any answers to my questions? You completely missed what I was saying. Not all people who call themselves Christians or follow any of the Abrahamic religions are creationists. I'd wager that the vast majority are not, so your questions are based on an unfounded assumption. To answer your questions: 1. It isn't. I simply don't believe that way. 2. It isn't. I simply don't believe that way. 3. They could. I simply don't believe that they are. 3a. They aren't. I simply don't believe that they are. Your questions are, honestly, a bit silly. -- Posted by StraitjacketJunky at 12:09 pm on July 3, 2009 Quote: from exceedinglyrare at 11:30 am on July 3, 2009 You completely missed what I was saying. Not all people who call themselves Christians or follow any of the Abrahamic religions are creationists. I'd wager that the vast majority are not, so your questions are based on an unfounded assumption. Quote: from StraitjacketJunky at 6:06 am on July 3, 2009 ... or creationists in general. ... Now for the record, I'm not implying that all creationists think this way. This is for the ones that do.   To answer your questions: 1. It isn't. I simply don't believe that way. 2. It isn't. I simply don't believe that way. 3. They could. I simply don't believe that they are. 3a. They aren't. I simply don't believe that they are. Your questions are, honestly, a bit silly. Correct me if I'm wrong, but... 1. You admit that your God is at least as plausible as the big bang, or the universe being formed by random events... 2. You admit that your god is as plausible as any other... 3. You admit that your feelings could just be subjective... 3a. And you admit that they are no different than the subjective feelings of other religious people. So what makes your religion so special? You've given no reason other than the ol' "cause I think so". There must be more to it than that. -- Posted by jamesish at 12:36 pm on July 3, 2009 Quote: from StraitjacketJunky at 3:09 pm on July 3, 2009 So what makes your religion so special? You've given no reason other than the ol' "cause I think so". There must be more to it than that. Why does there have to be more to it?  A religion based on blind faith doesn't warrant more reason. -- Posted by Forever Angel at 12:43 pm on July 3, 2009 Quote: from jamesish at 2:36 pm on July 3, 2009 Quote: from StraitjacketJunky at 3:09 pm on July 3, 2009 So what makes your religion so special? You've given no reason other than the ol' "cause I think so". There must be more to it than that. Why does there have to be more to it? A religion based on blind faith doesn't warrant more reason. Why do you say "blind" faith? Is that the same as "love is blind"? -- Posted by jamesish at 12:50 pm on July 3, 2009 Quote: from Forever Angel at 3:43 pm on July 3, 2009 Quote: from jamesish at 2:36 pm on July 3, 2009 Quote: from StraitjacketJunky at 3:09 pm on July 3, 2009 So what makes your religion so special? You've given no reason other than the ol' "cause I think so". There must be more to it than that. Why does there have to be more to it? A religion based on blind faith doesn't warrant more reason. Why do you say "blind" faith? Is that the same as "love is blind"? Is just "faith" better? Now that I think about it more, I guess it's not really blind. Blind would be without reason. But I'd imagine some people who are religious do have a "blind" approach to their specific religion. Maybe they believe just because their parents did so they don't ask any questions. Edit:  I might be changing the definition of "blind faith."  I'm not sure. -- Posted by StraitjacketJunky at 2:34 pm on July 3, 2009 Quote: from Forever Angel at 12:43 pm on July 3, 2009 Why do you say "blind" faith? Is that the same as "love is blind"? Love is a good thing, but just because blindness is associated with it doesn't make blindness good. I think one can refer to this as a reverse ad hominem in informal fallacy. I don't know, though. -- Posted by StraitjacketJunky at 2:36 pm on July 3, 2009 Quote: from jamesish at 12:50 pm on July 3, 2009 Is just "faith" better?  Now that I think about it more, I guess it's not really blind.  Blind would be without reason.  But I'd imagine some people who are religious do have a "blind" approach to their specific religion.  Maybe they believe just because their parents did so they don't ask any questions. Edit: I might be changing the definition of "blind faith." I'm not sure. Sometimes I use "blind" as "ignorantly unquestioning". Blind to anything that doesn't agree with their faith. If I'm not mistaken, there's blind faith, which has no reason other than "I really really think so", then there's faith, which would be "I really really think so because...". -- Posted by exceedinglyrare at 2:48 pm on July 3, 2009 Quote: from StraitjacketJunky at 3:09 pm on July 3, 2009 Correct me if I'm wrong, but...   1. You admit that your God is at least as plausible as the big bang, or the universe being formed by random events...   2. You admit that your god is as plausible as any other...   3. You admit that your feelings could just be subjective...   3a. And you admit that they are no different than the subjective feelings of other religious people.   So what makes your religion so special? You've given no reason other than the ol' "cause I think so". There must be more to it than that. Sorry to disappoint you; if you were looking for a huge dissertation filled with empirical objective evidence, you're looking in the wrong place and are going to be disappointed. -- Posted by StraitjacketJunky at 3:37 pm on July 3, 2009 Quote: from exceedinglyrare at 2:48 pm on July 3, 2009 Quote: from StraitjacketJunky at 3:09 pm on July 3, 2009 Correct me if I'm wrong, but...  1. You admit that your God is at least as plausible as the big bang, or the universe being formed by random events...  2. You admit that your god is as plausible as any other...  3. You admit that your feelings could just be subjective...  3a. And you admit that they are no different than the subjective feelings of other religious people.  So what makes your religion so special? You've given no reason other than the ol' "cause I think so". There must be more to it than that. Sorry to disappoint you; if you were looking for a huge dissertation filled with empirical objective evidence, you're looking in the wrong place and are going to be disappointed. I'm just curious to know why you find your religion so special. Do you even have a reason? -- Posted by exceedinglyrare at 3:58 pm on July 3, 2009 The certainty I have, which is the same certainty that causes me to believe that my fiance loves me. It's more correctly defined as "faith" (which is not the same thing as belief). -- Posted by dragonking at 5:16 pm on July 3, 2009 Quote: from StraitjacketJunky at 9:06 am on July 3, 2009 Now for the record, I'm not implying that all creationists think this way. This is for the ones that do.   1.   Why is the idea of the universe happening at random, which may have been the result of multiple big bangs occurring until something was formed by chance, so much harder to believe than the idea of an omnipotent being creating said universe, plus Heaven and Hell?   Even though that god is so much greater than the universe? The universe has laws which show intelligence behind it (ie: gravity) and how everything fits together with each other (symbiotic relationships, etc).   2.   Why is the idea of your god so much more plausible than the idea of any other of the hundreds of gods and religious figures?   What history shows through archaeology and being a Christian makes more sense to me. 3.   Why can't your feelings and your faith just be subjective and imaginary?   Faith isn't just going on feelings.  It actually goes against "normal" human emotions to have inner peace in bad situations among other things.  People's lives change for the better because they accept Jesus as their Lord and Messiah isn't imaginary.  An example is people being drug addicts and then they become Christians and quit drugs cold turkey. Also what is seen history has shown.  The Jewish people still being around while other Ancient cultures are long gone shows of God being real, for this people to be preserved after so many have persecuted them. 3.A.  Why are they any different than the feelings of members of other religions? It's not based on feelings but what makes sense historically and other things in the above. The answers are after the questions above. -- Posted by dragonking at 5:21 pm on July 3, 2009 Quote: from HarrySunderland at 9:39 am on July 3, 2009 My mom said: 1 because I can feel god in my heart so I know that's what the case is.2 all the other religions were made by humans while Christians follow the only one really created by god. 3 Because I just know its true. That's the best I could get out of her. I would say another answer to two is that other religions may have come from spirits but evil spirits that distort God's truth and make other religions.  I say distort because most religions have a similar moral code but different theology.  I've noticed other religions than Christianity are more law based with out a way to obey.  In Christianity God changes you from the inside out, the Lord gives you the power to change for the better from the inside out. -- Posted by Stormblazer at 9:16 pm on July 5, 2009 Quote: from HarrySunderland at 7:39 am on July 3, 2009 My mom said: 1 because I can feel god in my heart so I know that's what the case is.2 all the other religions were made by humans while Christians follow the only one really created by god. 3 Because I just know its true. That's the best I could get out of her. Unfortunately, that's not good enough past her own head. Thinking it's true because you think it is just an empty tautology for anyone else. -- Posted by exceedinglyrare at 10:33 pm on July 5, 2009 Quote: from Stormblazer at 12:16 am on July 6, 2009 Unfortunately, that's not good enough past her own head. Thinking it's true because you think it is just an empty tautology for anyone else. And if you're not interested in proving your beliefs to anyone else? -- Posted by TheRoaminGnome at 10:49 pm on July 5, 2009 Quote: from Forever Angel at 11:08 am on July 3, 2009 Quote: from StraitjacketJunky at 12:57 pm on July 3, 2009 While that's true that a Judeo-Christians are creationists, creationists are not Judeo-Christians. Just as how white is a race but race isn't white. That doesn't make any sense to me. All Judeo-Christians are NOT creationists any more than all creationists are Judeo-Christians. All creationists are indeed Juedo-Christians. Muslims and Hindus might have their own fairy tales about creation, but they are not Creationists. -- Posted by bananasplits at 11:20 pm on July 5, 2009 Quote: from StraitjacketJunky at 2:06 pm on July 3, 2009 Now for the record, I'm not implying that all creationists think this way. This is for the ones that do.   1.   Why is the idea of the universe happening at random, which may have been the result of multiple big bangs occurring until something was formed by chance, so much harder to believe than the idea of an omnipotent being creating said universe, plus Heaven and Hell?   Even though that god is so much greater than the universe? 2.   Why is the idea of your god so much more plausible than the idea of any other of the hundreds of gods and religious figures?   3.   Why can't your feelings and your faith just be subjective and imaginary?   3.A Why are they any different than the feelings of members of other religions? I am not a creationalist. I am a Christian. 1. It's not that I don't believe that there was a big bang. I just believe that whatever did happen, God did it. The Bible doesn't specify what series of events caused the creation of the Earth, it just said that God commanded it. I also don't believe in science. Science is man made and men have flaws, we forget that everything is a theory. As Christians we are always pressured to answer direct answers to questions that science doesn't even have to answer. When you dig down to the basics of science, it all lies on probability. They believe the model of the electron is probably the way it is e.t.c. and it is backed up by what?? MORE SCIENCE. For a long time people believed the Earth was flat, that a given fact until proven wrong. Same with Rutherford's model of the electron, that was what was believed as fact - until proven wrong. I'm not going to wait until science is proven wrong to believe in God. 2.I haven't read too much into other Gods but I have several muslim friends and though I do not even claim to know even as much as a third as they do, I just don't feel the need to look elsewhere. Christianity just has it all for me, to clarify that GOD has it all for me. I like the sterness - the opinion that Christians should be push overs just doesn't corroborate with the Bible, even Jesus was not as 'wimpy' as 21st century cartoons and media make out. In the Bible there is a part where Jesus when into the synagogues with a whip, if you're interested read more about it, he was not a 'nice, soft, mushy guy.' He even described himself as a gate, which implies that he doesn't let everything pass into him, there are certain criteria a person must meet. 3. If you are truly a believer or any faith, and I mean TRULY then your faith becomes real, to the extent that you can feel it. Trust me, I'm not trying to advertise anything here, I merely was curious and found my way here, check my history, I'm not familiar with the religious board. A lot of Christians never reach this point, the point where their faith aligns with their life, where they are actually walking with God, spiritually, so I try and do my own research. I have met Christians who haven't even read the Bible, but have told me that the faith is a fraud - a lie. I am currently reading a book called 'Evidence that demands a verdict.' If we actually care to give it a try, you'll be very surprised. Christianity is like a plant, if you don't water it, and aren't attentive, it'll die, it might shock you one day to find the leaves empty of flowers, you did not water it, the plant died and now you have no hope in it. 3A. I can't comment on the feelings other people about their religions, but some religions have similar ideas to Christianity, and so some people could feel strongly about their faith. It is only through thorough investigation of the Bible and prayer and connection with God, can you really understand what discerns this faith, if you feel an immediate difference between walking with God and your old/regular life, then it's how most people tell that no other faith can compete. They don't want to risk losing such a special thing. -- Posted by Forever Angel at 8:59 am on July 6, 2009 Quote: from TheRoaminGnome at 12:49 am on July 6, 2009 Quote: from Forever Angel at 11:08 am on July 3, 2009 Quote: from StraitjacketJunky at 12:57 pm on July 3, 2009 While that's true that a Judeo-Christians are creationists, creationists are not Judeo-Christians. Just as how white is a race but race isn't white. That doesn't make any sense to me. All Judeo-Christians are NOT creationists any more than all creationists are Judeo-Christians. All creationists are indeed Juedo-Christians. Muslims and Hindus might have their own fairy tales about creation, but they are not Creationists. So there are no Jewish people who believe in creation? And while the Muslim's may not be exactly "Creationists", I'm sure the basics of their religion have similar stances. -- Posted by Moridin at 10:05 am on July 6, 2009 Quote: from Forever Angel at 6:59 pm on July 6, 2009 Quote: from TheRoaminGnome at 12:49 am on July 6, 2009 Quote: from Forever Angel at 11:08 am on July 3, 2009 Quote: from StraitjacketJunky at 12:57 pm on July 3, 2009 While that's true that a Judeo-Christians are creationists, creationists are not Judeo-Christians. Just as how white is a race but race isn't white. That doesn't make any sense to me. All Judeo-Christians are NOT creationists any more than all creationists are Judeo-Christians. All creationists are indeed Juedo-Christians.    Muslims and Hindus might have their own fairy tales about creation, but they are not Creationists. So there are no Jewish people who believe in creation? And while the Muslim's may not be exactly "Creationists", I'm sure the basics of their religion have similar stances. I have to say that Forever Angel is right here. There are Islamic creationism and Hindu creationism in addition to Christian creationism. -- Posted by Moridin at 10:06 am on July 6, 2009 Quote: from exceedinglyrare at 12:48 am on July 4, 2009 Quote: from StraitjacketJunky at 3:09 pm on July 3, 2009 Correct me if I'm wrong, but...  1. You admit that your God is at least as plausible as the big bang, or the universe being formed by random events...  2. You admit that your god is as plausible as any other...  3. You admit that your feelings could just be subjective...  3a. And you admit that they are no different than the subjective feelings of other religious people.  So what makes your religion so special? You've given no reason other than the ol' "cause I think so". There must be more to it than that. Sorry to disappoint you; if you were looking for a huge dissertation filled with empirical objective evidence, you're looking in the wrong place and are going to be disappointed. Is this a concession that your worldview is ultimately rationally and empirically untenable? Or did i read it wrong? -- Posted by Moridin at 10:07 am on July 6, 2009 Quote: from exceedinglyrare at 8:33 am on July 6, 2009 Quote: from Stormblazer at 12:16 am on July 6, 2009 Unfortunately, that's not good enough past her own head. Thinking it's true because you think it is just an empty tautology for anyone else. And if you're not interested in proving your beliefs to anyone else? Then that means you are doubting the factual accuracy of them? The only time I would think twice about arguing for something is when I am doubting the factual accuracy of something. -- Posted by Moridin at 10:13 am on July 6, 2009 Quote: from exceedinglyrare at 1:58 am on July 4, 2009 The certainty I have, which is the same certainty that causes me to believe that my fiance loves me. It's more correctly defined as "faith" (which is not the same thing as belief). Indeed, faith is belief without evidence. Notice that this would imply that faith is by definition irrational. However, your argument that you have no evidence that your fiance loves you is utter nonsense. Due to the physical-chemical facts of courting and mating, there has to be an exchange of evidence for mutual romantic or sexual interest, otherwise no consensual reproduction would occur and all sexually reproducing living organisms would die out. This is clearly not the case, so evidence must exist. To what extent these evidence is chemical or behavioral in nature is of course up for discussion, but the fact that they exist is not. From a biological standpoint, your position is so very strange and non intuitive from what we know about biology. Pages: 1 2  Next