Pages: 1 2  Next -- Posted by DonnieDarkko at 12:26 pm on July 8, 2009 would you think predominantly Muslim country?? Cuz it pretty much is. Basing it on people who actively practise their religion, Islam is the largest. Thoughts?? -- Posted by robdude at 12:27 pm on July 8, 2009 They manipulate dominoes pizza there too! -- Posted by anthoron at 12:28 pm on July 8, 2009 i'd really hate to be pedantic, but britain isn't a country. it's a collection of countries. -- Posted by marshmellowman at 12:28 pm on July 8, 2009 What are you talking about? Islam makes up like 3% of the religious population in the UK. Christianity is by far the biggest, like 70%+. Sources? How do you know that so many of the christians here don't actively practice? -- Posted by Spice at 12:29 pm on July 8, 2009 I never thought of that really. We're officially a protestant country, aren't we? or am I totally wrong? -- Posted by robdude at 12:31 pm on July 8, 2009 2.4 million muslims in britain -- Posted by anthoron at 12:31 pm on July 8, 2009 Quote: from marshmellowman at 8:28 pm on July 8, 2009 What are you talking about? Islam makes up like 3% of the religious population in the UK. Christianity is by far the biggest, like 70%+. Sources? How do you know that so many of the christians here don't actively practice? i think it's more the fact that christians are polite enough not to ram their religion down your throat in the media most of the time. -- Posted by Dissilusioned at 12:32 pm on July 8, 2009 ...Well it's not a predominantly muslim country, because you're discounting everyone who isn't religious. -- Posted by DonnieDarkko at 12:34 pm on July 8, 2009 Quote: from marshmellowman at 8:28 pm on July 8, 2009 What are you talking about? Islam makes up like 3% of the religious population in the UK. Christianity is by far the biggest, like 70%+. I said practise. The 70%+ statistic is from people's cencus forms. It says "Protestant/Anglican" on mine but I'm agnostic, and haven't been to church since I was about ten. It's like that for millions because despite loads of people apathetically putting protestant or whatever on the forms, church numbers are dwindling, whereas the vast majority of people putting themselves down as Muslims actually do practise their religion; pray, wear hijab, go the mosque... Cencus forms are an inaccurate representation. The many mosques I see are way busier on Fridays than the few old people you see going to or from church on Sundays. -- Posted by Prince o palities at 12:36 pm on July 8, 2009 I think you may be describing a perception of activity rather than actual activity.  I imagine numerically, even the dwindling number of practicing Christians still outnumber the Muslims. -- Posted by DonnieDarkko at 12:40 pm on July 8, 2009 Quote: from Prince o palities at 8:36 pm on July 8, 2009 I think you may be describing a perception of activity rather than actual activity. I imagine numerically, even the dwindling number of practicing Christians still outnumber the Muslims. This isn't just me applying my perception to the entire country; an independent survey put it that in 2010 the numbers of Mosque attendances will overtake numbers of church attendances, given the current regressive trend of Christians attending church p.a compared to the growing number attending mosques p.a. -- Posted by marshmellowman at 12:41 pm on July 8, 2009 Anecdotal evidence really isn't proof though, maybe you live in an area where there are a lot of practising Muslims. Where I go to uni, there are a bunch of christian churches close by. We have a Christian Union that has a lot of members who organise lots of stuff, and the churches do get fairly busy on Sundays. Not all the time but a lot. While I do see where you're coming from, I don't think there's really much evidence or research that has looked into this. I don't think at this point I could really believe that like 68% or so of Christians listed on the census are not practising. Yes, the census isn't perfect, but I don't think such a large difference could be accounted by misrepresentation or incorrectly reported information. -- Posted by anthoron at 12:42 pm on July 8, 2009 Quote: from DonnieDarkko at 8:40 pm on July 8, 2009 Quote: from Prince o palities at 8:36 pm on July 8, 2009 I think you may be describing a perception of activity rather than actual activity.  I imagine numerically, even the dwindling number of practicing Christians still outnumber the Muslims. This isn't just me applying my perception to the entire country; an independent survey put it that in 2010 the numbers of Mosque attendances will overtake numbers of church attendances, given the current regressive trend of Christians attending church p.a compared to the growing number attending mosques p.a. source, please. -- Posted by Prince o palities at 12:45 pm on July 8, 2009 anthoron beat me to it.  Statistics require a source. -- Posted by anthoron at 12:46 pm on July 8, 2009 Quote: from Prince o palities at 8:45 pm on July 8, 2009 anthoron beat me to it. Statistics require a source. and even then i'd question the source. -- Posted by DonnieDarkko at 12:50 pm on July 8, 2009 These are old-ish sources but considering the trend is that Islam is growing and Christianity is gradually declining that shouldn't make a huge difference to my point. Muslims outpace Anglicans in UK SUNDAY, JANUARY 25, 2004 08:08:38 PM LONDON : Attendance at Britain 's mosques has outstripped the number of regular worshippers in the Church of England for the first time, media reported on Sunday. Figures compiled from government and academic sources show that 930,000 Muslims attend a place of worship at least once a week, as against 916,000 Anglicans, The Sunday Times reported. Muslim leaders said that it was a landmark in the rise of Islam in Britain and that Muslims must receive a share of the Church of England's privileged status. This weekend David Hope, the Archbishop of York, second in the church hierarchy, conceded. His spokesman said: "The archbishop acknowledges the overtaking of Church of England numbers by the Muslim community. But he believes that many more people have an affinity to the church than the number recorded as having attended once on a Sunday." Sections 12 & 13 edit: one sec let me fix the second source/chart. -- Posted by anthoron at 12:52 pm on July 8, 2009 and how/where was this sample taken? having lived in both the middle of england and the south of england, i can safely say that the south of england would probably not reflect your argument considering i've seen very few people who aren't white. -- Posted by marshmellowman at 12:52 pm on July 8, 2009 Yeah, but as the source stated, that just listed Anglicans, and there's a whole load of other Christian denominations in that list that probably would change the figure a lot. -- Posted by DonnieDarkko at 12:57 pm on July 8, 2009 Quote: from marshmellowman at 8:52 pm on July 8, 2009 Yeah, but as the source stated, that just listed Anglicans, and there's a whole load of other Christian denominations in that list that probably would change the figure a lot. Well considering the C of E has traditionally always been the largest denomination it's saying something, but anyway, that's what the other source is for (fixed now). -- Posted by marshmellowman at 1:02 pm on July 8, 2009 Quote: from DonnieDarkko at 8:57 pm on July 8, 2009 Quote: from marshmellowman at 8:52 pm on July 8, 2009 Yeah, but as the source stated, that just listed Anglicans, and there's a whole load of other Christian denominations in that list that probably would change the figure a lot. Well considering the C of E has traditionally always been the largest denomination it's saying something, but anyway, that's what the other source is for (fixed now). well section 12 states that roman catholics attend church more than C of E, and in total sunday attendance would be over 3 million, compared to the <1 million Muslims the quote stated. So even without questioning your sources, it still debunks your original proposition. -- Posted by Prince o palities at 1:06 pm on July 8, 2009 In view of the statistics and their source, I think I'm going to stand by my original statement.  You are expressing a very common perception of reality rather than reality itself. -- Posted by DonnieDarkko at 1:14 pm on July 8, 2009 Quote: from marshmellowman at 9:02 pm on July 8, 2009 Quote: from DonnieDarkko at 8:57 pm on July 8, 2009 Quote: from marshmellowman at 8:52 pm on July 8, 2009 Yeah, but as the source stated, that just listed Anglicans, and there's a whole load of other Christian denominations in that list that probably would change the figure a lot.    Well considering the C of E has traditionally always been the largest denomination it's saying something, but anyway, that's what the other source is for (fixed now). well section 12 states that roman catholics attend church more than C of E, and in total sunday attendance would be over 3 million, compared to the <1 million Muslims the quote stated. So even without questioning your sources, it still debunks your original proposition. And that was in 2005, whilst the average % of decline considering all denominations per year is 13.1 (395,460 people). I'll admit I'm assuming it's declined at roughly that same rate between 2005 and now, but if it has, in 2010 Islam will have overtaken Christianity. -- Posted by DonnieDarkko at 1:31 pm on July 8, 2009 Quote: from Prince o palities at 9:06 pm on July 8, 2009 In view of the statistics and their source, I think I'm going to stand by my original statement. You are expressing a very common perception of reality rather than reality itself. What's wrong with the sources? They're from the Christian Research English Church Census. And a common perception of reality rather than reality itself? I'm posting about actual church/mosque attendance in an attempt to actually put things in real terms!? The perception of reality, if anything, is that Christianity is the dominant religion. edit: Also, talking of perceptions, I think you think I'm only posting this to see if I can piss off some Christians, I'm not. I'm not trying to put all faiths in some type of competition, when I asked "Thoughts?" it didn't mean "Shove that in your Christian pipe and smoke it!", I was getting at people's predictions of implications of Islam becoming more prominent on British culture, law and government, the media etc. -- Posted by Prince o palities at 2:28 pm on July 8, 2009 I honestly don't think you have any malicious intent.  The speculative and incomplete nature of your evidence, however, tends toward my conclusion.  The numbers cited about regarding Catholics seem enough to substantiate that. -- Posted by DonnieDarkko at 2:43 pm on July 8, 2009 Which marshmellowman quite rightly pointed out, and I responded. Considering the figures for the annual decline of church attendance (coupled with the dramatic rise in the Muslim population and in turn its affect on mosque attendance) Islam appears to be overtaking Christianity. -- Posted by DonnieDarkko at 5:51 am on July 9, 2009 Quote: from anthoron at 8:52 pm on July 8, 2009 and how/where was this sample taken? having lived in both the middle of england and the south of england, i can safely say that the south of england would probably not reflect your argument considering i've seen very few people who aren't white. The census is from a Christian source (Christian Research Group) on 8 May 2005 with the participation of 18,720 churches, half of the total of 37,501 known churches in England originally contacted. Statistics and figures are based on information supplied by churches on attendance figures for all services on May 2005. Estimates have been made for those who did not respond, partly on the basis that their figures would on average be similar to those who did respond, but also comparing the results with previous studies and/or published denominational figures. Considering what we've all agreed about anecdotal evidence I don't know what you're thinking you're proving there. You may as well have said "In the relatively tiny amount of the south of England I've seen, I didn't see many white people, therefore everyone in the south's a Muslim and the rest are white Christians." And you said that having lived in the Midlands!? Surely you must know that Birmingham and Leicester both have very large asian communities, though smaller towns may be more white British. Same applies to the North considering places like Bradford, and the south with London and Slough. -- Posted by anthoron at 9:02 am on July 9, 2009 Quote: from DonnieDarkko at 1:51 pm on July 9, 2009 Quote: from anthoron at 8:52 pm on July 8, 2009 and how/where was this sample taken? having lived in both the middle of england and the south of england, i can safely say that the south of england would probably not reflect your argument considering i've seen very few people who aren't white. The census is from a Christian source (Christian Research Group) on 8 May 2005 with the participation of 18,720 churches, half of the total of 37,501 known churches in England originally contacted. Statistics and figures are based on information supplied by churches on attendance figures for all services on May 2005. Estimates have been made for those who did not respond, partly on the basis that their figures would on average be similar to those who did respond, but also comparing the results with previous studies and/or published denominational figures. Considering what we've all agreed about anecdotal evidence I don't know what you're thinking you're proving there. You may as well have said "In the relatively tiny amount of the south of England I've seen, I didn't see many white people, therefore everyone in the south's a Muslim and the rest are white Christians." And you said that having lived in the Midlands!? Surely you must know that Birmingham and Leicester both have very large asian communities, though smaller towns may be more white British. Same applies to the North considering places like Bradford, and the south with London and Slough. my point was that if the sample hadn't been taken accross the entire of the uk, not just small pockets, the results would be very bias since there's not an even distribution of ethnicity or religious beliefs through out the uk. -- Posted by Blackadder at 10:51 am on July 9, 2009 even if Islam overtakes christainity I doubt it will make any real diffence... the principles of our legal system are far too ingrained and strong for any of that sharia stuff to make an impact (with the expection of ADR remedy).... ...and so on... -- Posted by DonnieDarkko at 1:06 pm on July 9, 2009 Quote: from anthoron at 5:02 pm on July 9, 2009 My point was that if the sample hadn't been taken accross the entire of the uk, not just small pockets, the results would be very bias since there's not an even distribution of ethnicity or religious beliefs through out the uk. Fair enough, well luckily the census was taken throughout every region of the country. Quote: from Blackadder even if Islam overtakes christainity I doubt it will make any real diffence... the principles of our legal system are far too ingrained and strong for any of that sharia stuff to make an impact (with the expection of ADR remedy) Seperate shariah courts for Muslims were proposed, and although I think the idea only yielded little success, a compromise was reached that within our traditional judicial system a different approach could be offered for Muslims regarding things like divorce settlements, being the prime example [in which both parties have to agree to use this alternative 'Islamic' form of procedure]. I also found it sort of weird that among others, the Archbishop of Canterbury supported accomodating parts of shariah in our legal system. A few years ago I was also interested to see we had the first few Islamic banks set up for business in Britain, Muslims apparently keen to use their style of banking here (a friend told me you can get [small] interest free loans from them because charging interest is considered immoral in Islam). -- Posted by Blackadder at 1:53 pm on July 9, 2009 Quote: from DonnieDarkko at 9:06 pm on July 9, 2009 Quote: from anthoron at 5:02 pm on July 9, 2009 My point was that if the sample hadn't been taken accross the entire of the uk, not just small pockets, the results would be very bias since there's not an even distribution of ethnicity or religious beliefs through out the uk. Fair enough, well luckily the census was taken throughout every region of the country. Quote: from Blackadder even if Islam overtakes christainity I doubt it will make any real diffence... the principles of our legal system are far too ingrained and strong for any of that sharia stuff to make an impact (with the expection of ADR remedy) Seperate shariah courts for Muslims were proposed, and although I think the idea only yielded little success, a compromise was reached that within our traditional judicial system a different approach could be offered for Muslims regarding things like divorce settlements, being the prime example [in which both parties have to agree to use this alternative 'Islamic' form of procedure]. Yes, as I said, ADR. http://www.infolaw.co.uk/partners/alternative_dispute_resolution.htm This "comprimise" is nothing special [infact, to try and suggest this is a "comprimise" is ulterly absurd], lots of organizations and methods are accepted by the judial system for settling civil disputes.   I also found it sort of weird that among others, the Archbishop of Canterbury supported accomodating parts of shariah in our legal system. but in what capacity?    merely as ADR? A few years ago I was also interested to see we had the first few Islamic banks set up for business in Britain, Muslims apparently keen to use their style of banking here (a friend told me you can get [small] interest free loans from them because charging interest is considered immoral in Islam). I can only see this as a positive thing however, so long as they abide by the current standards and laws, whats the problem?   Pages: 1 2  Next