-- Posted by sophiethelibrarian at 2:44 am on Aug. 20, 2006 I have found that there are more and more topics on e-helps that are potential 'jokes', and whilst I do not agree with sensoring or deleting posts, I feel that it's unfair when I see that support leaders are getting negatives for answering a post which they did in good faith. It seems unfair to get a negative when someone was going to do that anyway, no matter what you wrote. I think we could maybe have a new system of scoring. We can retain a Very Good/Good/Poor/Very Poor system, although each would be pointed, such as: Very Good - 10 Points Good - 7 Points Poor - 4 points Very Poor - 1 Point This means that, even if in someone's opinion, the answer was not brilliant, they are rewarded for their effort in some way. Then, the points can be added up as they are now. I think this would be much fairer, and would avoid the straight +1 for good and -1 for bad - as all answers are subjective. What does everyone think? -- Posted by rock85cool at 3:02 am on Aug. 20, 2006 I like it sounds good to me. I do agree, I run across a few topics that could quite easily be in the regular forum. -- Posted by carbonara at 3:14 am on Aug. 20, 2006 The ranking of my reply means nothing to me nor do the points. I like doing it for the self-satisfaction whether the person gives me a high score or not. It doesn't matter to me. Sure this idea would be good, but then aren't we just throwing the whole point of the eHelp centre out of the window. It is there for us to support those who need help. For us to give our honest opinion, our best advice to those who need it. Regardless of how they rate us. Thats not important. Just as long as we know that we have tried our best to help. I personally really don't like the whole whatever/4 thing. Makes me feel like I'm competing with other Support Leaders when thats not what its about. -- Posted by xestrangedx at 3:19 am on Aug. 20, 2006 Quote: from carbonara at 11:14 am on Aug. 20, 2006 The ranking of my reply means nothing to me. I like doing it for the self-satisfaction whether the person gives me a high score or not. It doesnt matter to me. Sure this idea would be good, but then arent we just throwing the whole point of the eHelp centre out of the window. It is there for us to support those who need help. For us to give our honest opinion, our best advice to those who need it. Regardless of how they rate us. Thats not important. Just aslong as we know that we have tried our best to help. I personally really dont like the whole whatever/4 thing. Makes me feel likes it i'm competing with other Support Leaders when thats not what its about. I do agree here. I dont post a reply just to get those 2 reward points and wait for someone to hopefully give me a rating. I do it because it makes me feel good that i can help someone who really needs help fast. It gives me satisfaction to know that. However i do think this is a good idea. I must admit sometimes when i send in a reply and i think i have wrotten one that i have really thought about and really got myself into, to look have it ranked quite low. I dont know its stupid but i feel kind of sad. Sad that i didnt help them the way they were looking for you know? But i think its still good to get points because you took the time to write out a reply. There are a lot of support leaders now and to take the time to rely should be worth some credit. I like the idea. -- Posted by ilovecookies at 3:31 am on Aug. 20, 2006 Maybe 10 points is a bit much, but I agree with you. -- Posted by sophiethelibrarian at 4:28 am on Aug. 20, 2006 Quote: from carbonara at 11:14 am on Aug. 20, 2006 The ranking of my reply means nothing to me nor do the points. I like doing it for the self-satisfaction whether the person gives me a high score or not. It doesn't matter to me. Sure this idea would be good, but then aren't we just throwing the whole point of the eHelp centre out of the window. It is there for us to support those who need help. For us to give our honest opinion, our best advice to those who need it. Regardless of how they rate us. Thats not important. Just as long as we know that we have tried our best to help. I personally really don't like the whole whatever/4 thing. Makes me feel like I'm competing with other Support Leaders when thats not what its about. To some extent I agree with this, however, it has been designed as a competitive scoring system. To quote the email you get when coming 1st, 2nd or 3rd from the moderators: "Congratulations, this week you came in 1st in the competitive contest for the most supportive members! This is based off feedback from your eHelp Replies." Obviously, as stated, it has been designed this way and there has to be an element of competition to encourage people to join in. Perhaps 10 points is too high, however, this can be looked at. If I was a Support Leader and I answered say only 4 e-helps and ended up with 2 positive and 2 negative, even though the negatives were not my fault, I think it would put some people off. The fact that we have a lot of Support Leaders yet generally the same 9 or 10 answer them each day tells me that something needs to be done to encourage a few more to get involved. -- Posted by audrey820 at 11:33 am on Aug. 20, 2006 I disagree. This idea puts too much emphasis on the rating and not enough on the support. We became support leaders to support people who came to LW for advice.  The ratings are an extra bonus of being a support leader and they're here to help improve our techniques. But when it comes down to it, we have to accept our ratings. Out of over 100 ratings, I've received probably 8 negative ones.   And I don't deserve praise for them. I miss when the ratings were seen as a way to improve rather than a ridiculous competition. I don't want support leaders to reply for the rating or points or competition.  Fuck that.  I want them to reply because they want to help.  Those are the passionate replies that are truly helpful. I wish they'd do away with the weekly competition and only have a listing of all time. -- Posted by shh at 11:49 am on Aug. 20, 2006 I say completely take away all points and ratings so people won't be so damn point-whoreish. Edit: Oh and if you say that taking away everything will make eHelp less active, so be it. It'll show who really wants to help and who is just in it for the points. Then we can all point and laugh at the idiots who just wanted points. :) -- Posted by audrey820 at 12:10 pm on Aug. 20, 2006 Quote: from shh at 2:49 pm on Aug. 20, 2006 I say completely take away all points and ratings so people won't be so damn point-whoreish. Edit: Oh and if you say that taking away everything will make eHelp less active, so be it. It'll show who really wants to help and who is just in it for the points. Then we can all point and laugh at the idiots who just wanted points. :) Jon's right. <3   We had plenty of active SLs before the ratings came in. But I like things old school and wish we still had the serious forum. -- Posted by ixi at 12:22 pm on Aug. 20, 2006 Quote: from audrey820 at 1:10 pm on Aug. 20, 2006 Quote: from shh at 2:49 pm on Aug. 20, 2006 I say completely take away all points and ratings so people won't be so damn point-whoreish.    Edit: Oh and if you say that taking away everything will make eHelp less active, so be it. It'll show who really wants to help and who is just in it for the points. Then we can all point and laugh at the idiots who just wanted points. :) Jon's right. <3   We had plenty of active SLs before the ratings came in. But I like things old school and wish we still had the serious forum. I really, REALLY wish we did too. -- Posted by dovelove at 12:30 pm on Aug. 20, 2006 Quote: from audrey820 at 2:33 pm on Aug. 20, 2006 I disagree. This idea puts too much emphasis on the rating and not enough on the support. We became support leaders to support people who came to LW for advice.  The ratings are an extra bonus of being a support leader and they're here to help improve our techniques. But when it comes down to it, we have to accept our ratings. Out of over 100 ratings, I've received probably 8 negative ones.   And I don't deserve praise for them. I miss when the ratings were seen as a way to improve rather than a ridiculous competition. I don't want support leaders to reply for the rating or points or competition.  Fuck that.  I want them to reply because they want to help.  Those are the passionate replies that are truly helpful. I wish they'd do away with the weekly competition and only have a listing of all time. Audrey and Jon basically said everything I agree with. eHelp is not a contest. The ratings are there to help you improve. I personally don't think that the points should even be included in the system; they are only to get people to be more active in it. Lately I've been noticing a few support leaders who are giving advice a ton in eHelp, but seem to be doing it for the wrong reasons. If you're replying to eHelps as a competition between other Support Leaders, then you shouldn't be a Support Leader. It's about wanting to help people with their issues, not getting your name on an all time list. -- Posted by sophiethelibrarian at 12:35 pm on Aug. 20, 2006 Oh well, everyone can agree to disagree then I suppose. -- Posted by JennyColada at 12:49 pm on Aug. 20, 2006 I'm sort of one of the members who's a bit obsessed with my scoring. I think it's just my own personal stuff though, it's nothing really to do with the eHelp rating system. Every time I'm rated on anything I always want to do well. My view on this situation: if a SL is rated badly, then they really shouldn't be rated in the first place. I see no reason for any SL to ever get a negative reply (I have gotten a few, and I sort of take it as a personal insult). I see no reason for any of our SL's to ever get rated negatively, and I think that it's very unfair that some people do rate them negatively and there is no way for a SL to get feedback (because many times they are anonymous or guests) from the poster. Sometimes, if I see that someone has been rating all the replies with a 2/4, I won't reply. Even if I know I have something to offer. My idea being: Why do I want to use my time an advice giving it to someone whom doesn't appreciate it? Advice is a two-way street. The OP needs to be open to getting the advice, and part of that is showing your gratitude by giving decent ratings (I mean, I can understand a 2/4 or 1/4 reply sometimes, but when EVERY reply is rated badly, that just says something more about the poster than the SL's). -- Posted by shh at 1:14 pm on Aug. 20, 2006 For me, it's gotten to the point that if I'm in a bad mood, and if someone gives me shitty advice, I am going to give them a negative rating. I don't like doing anonymous eHelps, I like to keep myself open, but if people take it personally that I rated their reply negatively, they aren't going to like me much, now are they. I think it would be stupid to get rid of negative ratings. If your reply sucks, it sucks and doesn't deserve points. You may have spent time trying to help someone, but if they don't find your advice helpful, then so be it. Move on. Oh, and this wasn't directed at anyone in particular, it was just a general you. -- Posted by dovelove at 1:26 pm on Aug. 20, 2006 Jenny, I appreciate when people reply to my eHelps. That doesn't mean that I won't give a 2/4 if I don't find their advice helpful at all. All of your replies that I've seen are a great length, and are awesome replies, so I could sympathize with you getting upset that you get bad ratings, but there really are SL's who just gave crap advice a couple times. I've written out super long eHelps to have people reply with 5 sentences. Ok, they're taking the time to respond, but if it's just plain not good advice, I'm not going to rate their advice as good if I don't think it is. I really believe that negative eHelps really should be interpreted as a way to improve, not be taken personally. If you get a bad rating, look at the eHelp and look at your reply and see what can be improved. -- Posted by JennyColada at 1:29 pm on Aug. 20, 2006 I see nothing wrong with people getting rated 2/4 if they may truely deserve it. But when an eHelp has 5 replies from really helpful members, and they ALL get rated 2/4, all five of them, that just seems very unfair, lazy, and many other things to me. I'm a lot more weary to reply to those people, because it just seems like nothing is good enough for them, and I don't like feeling like I'm not appreciated. I feel like I'm just ranting and changing the topic though. :P Sowwie. -- Posted by dovelove at 1:29 pm on Aug. 20, 2006 This means that, even if in someone's opinion, the answer was not brilliant, they are rewarded for their effort in some way. Oh, sophiethelibrarian, the point of eHelp is not to get rewarded. It's about peer support. I can see where getting a reward point or two would be nice and everything, but honestly, that's not what eHelp is about. -- Posted by JennyColada at 1:31 pm on Aug. 20, 2006 I find the two reward points/reply almost laughable. I mean, what, you get a whopping like 20 reward points a week? Wowser! Heh. It just seems funny to me. I'm not really the best person to be sharing my opinions on gaining more points though, as I hardly desire to get a higher point-count. -- Posted by dovelove at 1:33 pm on Aug. 20, 2006 Quote: from JennyColada at 4:29 pm on Aug. 20, 2006 I see nothing wrong with people getting rated 2/4 if they may truely deserve it. But when an eHelp has 5 replies from really helpful members, and they ALL get rated 2/4, all five of them, that just seems very unfair, lazy, and many other things to me. I'm a lot more weary to reply to those people, because it just seems like nothing is good enough for them, and I don't like feeling like I'm not appreciated.   I feel like I'm just ranting and changing the topic though. :P Sowwie. True. I agree with you there, I probably wouldn't reply to a person like that either. I don't think I've ever seen an eHelp where every single reply has been rated 2/4, though. But maybe that's because I don't look enough. Edit: Oh, and yeah, the reward point thing...meh, I could go post two one sentence replies in DTRM and get the same amount of points... -- Posted by SimplisticComplexity at 1:48 pm on Aug. 20, 2006 Quote: from sophiethelibrarian at 5:44 am on Aug. 20, 2006 I think we could maybe have a new system of scoring.   We can retain a Very Good/Good/Poor/Very Poor system, although each would be pointed, such as:   Very Good - 10 Points   Good - 7 Points   Poor - 4 points   Very Poor - 1 Point   This means that, even if in someone's opinion, the answer was not brilliant, they are rewarded for their effort in some way.   Then, the points can be added up as they are now.   Mmmmm...nope, I like the system the way it is.  If the advice is rated a 1/4 or 2/4, why should you be rewarded points for it?  Like shh said, if the advice sucks, then it sucks.  I think that only the really really good ehelps should be rewarded, if there must be a points system at all.  It's also my understanding that you get 2 points just for replying anyway, even if the post was rated negatively, so you basically already get points for at least contributing and trying your best. -- Posted by penguincube at 4:01 am on Aug. 21, 2006 The Serious Forum was completley dead when it was removed, and therefore served no puropse other than causing members to post their intimate problems and having the post completley ignored.  eHelp does everything the Serious Forum did but better. -- Posted by x FENRIS x at 8:33 am on Aug. 21, 2006 I am neither for, nor against this idea. Or at least, the restructuring of the system to better suit the replies that are given. Not only do certain support leaders recieve a negative response for good replies, but they also recieve positive ones, for bad replies (on occasion). I have seen quite a few topics with few lined answers with 4/4 feedback marks. As Audry, and Shh have said, this is about peer support, and not points. The satisfaction should come from the support being helpful, and useful. At the same time, you can't really say that getting positive feedback is not satisfying, although that may relate to the knowladge of one's own supportiveness, and not from a competition, or a points count. It may just come down to a interpretation/understanding of one's own supportiveness, although this can sometimes be reflected by positive responses. Something that I have noticed is that support leaders might not provide the same quality answers in the forums, posibly due to the missing incentive of positive feedback. It may just be sub-conscious, but it's noteworthy. (I include myself in this category.) I am not proposing anything, nor critisising anyone's veiws. They are your own. This is just mine. -- Posted by katatthedisco at 3:41 pm on Aug. 21, 2006 i think that is a great idea. -- Posted by insertnamehere at 11:06 am on Aug. 26, 2006 I have a couple of things to add: 1) If an SL gives genuinely good advice and a good response and is willing to follow that up if need be and the member feels better for it, then screw the motivation. I couldn't give a damn why the member's doin' it, just that he/she is. 2) If you've spent a long time typing out a reply in good faith, then for many people, a bad piece of feedback IS a kick in the teeth and there are no two ways about that. If you are above the ratings, good for you, but many people do care and are genuinely anxious about what they are doing. And for them it DOES matter. I got a bad piece of feedback for telling the member concerned the truth - any psychiatrist would agree. That's my only negative. And it was annoying. Because it shows up as negative on your account and everyone can see it simply as a negative piece of feedback. As such, feedback does matter to many people and those of you who feel otherwise should remember others. -- Posted by sydneysue13 at 6:11 pm on Sep. 11, 2006 I think that "very poor" should be 0 points. -- Posted by ManicD at 3:00 pm on Sep. 12, 2006 Quote: from JennyColada at 8:49 pm on Aug. 20, 2006 I'm sort of one of the members who's a bit obsessed with my scoring. I think it's just my own personal stuff though, it's nothing really to do with the eHelp rating system. Every time I'm rated on anything I always want to do well. My view on this situation: if a SL is rated badly, then they really shouldn't be rated in the first place. I see no reason for any SL to ever get a negative reply (I have gotten a few, and I sort of take it as a personal insult). I see no reason for any of our SL's to ever get rated negatively, and I think that it's very unfair that some people do rate them negatively and there is no way for a SL to get feedback (because many times they are anonymous or guests) from the poster. Sometimes, if I see that someone has been rating all the replies with a 2/4, I won't reply. Even if I know I have something to offer. My idea being: Why do I want to use my time an advice giving it to someone whom doesn't appreciate it? Advice is a two-way street. The OP needs to be open to getting the advice, and part of that is showing your gratitude by giving decent ratings (I mean, I can understand a 2/4 or 1/4 reply sometimes, but when EVERY reply is rated badly, that just says something more about the poster than the SL's). here we have an admittion that a member who gives great advice and amazing help to many members is not replying to certain ehelps because of the point system. The poster has got a good idea, but really, i think all the points should be scrapped from there anyway. mabyea straight 2 points for replying to an eHelp but no ratings or whatever -- Posted by Rhapsody at 4:06 pm on Sep. 12, 2006 I disagree with scrapping the whole ehelp scoring things altogether because of a few people. If anything just removed the points. Not the rating system, I actually like it and it serves to show me how helpful my reply was to that person. -- Posted by insertnamehere at 12:32 am on Sep. 13, 2006 Sam, that was such a daft oversimplification. The rating system can often be a very positive thing. -- Posted by audrey820 at 5:25 am on Sep. 13, 2006 Quote: from insertnamehere at 3:32 am on Sep. 13, 2006 Sam, that was such a daft oversimplification. The rating system can often be a very positive thing. I agree.  When I get a negative rating, I go back. I check where I got it, then see if the other people got positive ones and compare what there response had that mine lacked.  It's a good way to improve and a good way to show who's doing a great job of replying in the ehelp system.