Pages: 1 2  Next -- Posted by Spasty at 9:28 pm on Sep. 26, 2006 In your opinion, is "they" legitimately the gender-neutral singular pronoun? Why? In my opinion, it is grammatically correct (due to linguistic evolution). I'm fairly sure that Harvard English classes back this up. To the grammar purists: language changes. Note how around the 16th century, purists insisted upon the use of thou. -- Posted by porcelain at 9:35 pm on Sep. 26, 2006 No. It just doesn't sound right whne you use it as one. gender-neutral plural pronoun.. yes. Not singular, though. If I'm not understanding the point of your post, sorry. -- Posted by haggardgirl at 9:36 pm on Sep. 26, 2006 Prescriptivist grammarians, or anyone that thinks about the subject for more than a moment would likely disagree with you. I, however, don't necessarily. I think the way the language has evolved is just as important a determinant to what it should become (syntax-wise). -- Posted by Spasty at 9:40 pm on Sep. 26, 2006 Quote: from porcelain at 12:35 am on Sep. 27, 2006 No. It just doesn't sound right whne you use it as one.   gender-neutral plural pronoun.. yes. Not singular, though.   If I'm not understanding the point of your post, sorry. I messed up the word. I mean the context of, "They have a book." Instead of, "He/she has a book." Language evolves so much!! Think about how we've moved from "Ich am the bit withe grammyre," (pretend I spelled all of that right) to "I am the best with grammar." (Either way, I am not. I am far from it.) Both are English. The first is hardly understandable without some thought. -- Posted by porcelain at 9:46 pm on Sep. 26, 2006 OH. Well, in that case. I think while writing it's innapropriate to write that way, but speaking that way is acceptable. -- Posted by Spasty at 9:48 pm on Sep. 26, 2006 Quote: from porcelain at 12:46 am on Sep. 27, 2006 OH. Well, in that case. I think while writing it's innapropriate to write that way, but speaking that way is acceptable. Where do you draw the line for "writing?" Published? Official? Do you deem it acceptable for colloquial texts (such as LiveWire)? -- Posted by anonymousss at 9:54 pm on Sep. 26, 2006 'They' is plural, which must be given a specific context beforehand, in order to determine if it is gender specific. Other languages, like Spanish, for example, resolves this issue, as there exists gender specific, plural nouns, etc:  ellas versus ellos. But I'm merely stating the facts.  English is actually one of the few languages that do not have a masculine and feminine feature. There's a reason why 'they' is plural; it would be hard to substitute anything else (as part of the English language). Edit:  Thus, I disagree.  Forgot to mention this! -- Posted by porcelain at 9:55 pm on Sep. 26, 2006 I think it's fine for livewire, but, things such as essays, and published writings... it seems inappropriate and unacceptable. -- Posted by Spasty at 10:04 pm on Sep. 26, 2006 Quote: from anonymousss at 12:54 am on Sep. 27, 2006 'They' is plural, which must be given a specific context beforehand, in order to determine if it is gender specific. Other languages, like Spanish, for example, resolves this issue, as there exists gender specific, plural nouns, etc:  ellas versus ellos. But I'm merely stating the facts.  English is actually one of the few languages that do not have a masculine and feminine feature. Edit:  Thus, I disagree.  Forgot to mention this! Bad grammar -> accepted usage -> grammatical ^ How linguistic evolution works (for some things) ^ How would you feel (for the sake of debate) if in 15-20 years, it became grammatical? It's obviously in the "accepted usage" stage, as one hears it all the time, especially when anonymity is wanted. -- Posted by Chava at 8:00 am on Sep. 27, 2006 Whether or not it is grammatically correct it's still used. -- Posted by anonymousss at 8:40 am on Sep. 27, 2006 Quote: from Spasty at 1:04 am on Sep. 27, 2006 How would you feel . . . if in 15-20 years, it became grammatical? Well, for one, I would think the world has gone insane.  And if it would indeed, ever to happen, it would not be after a mere 20 years, lest for slang. -- Posted by Spasty at 1:26 pm on Sep. 27, 2006 Quote: from anonymousss at 11:40 am on Sep. 27, 2006 Quote: from Spasty at 1:04 am on Sep. 27, 2006  How would you feel . . . if in 15-20 years, it became grammatical? Well, for one, I would think the world has gone insane.  And if it would indeed, ever to happen, it would not be after a mere 20 years, lest for slang. But, as noted in the original post, I'm fairly sure that Harvard accepts it as grammatical. -- Posted by anonymousss at 1:32 pm on Sep. 27, 2006 Aside that it is one school, you're "fairly sure"? I'm sorry, but I would need something more concrete than your assurance. -- Posted by Spasty at 1:41 pm on Sep. 27, 2006 Quote: from anonymousss at 4:32 pm on Sep. 27, 2006 Aside that it is one school, you're "fairly sure"?   I'm sorry, but I would need something more concrete than your assurance. I will contact my friend who is an English major there. Sure, one school, but it is rather prestigious. EDIT: I just realized that I haven't a way to contact him. If I get the chance I will post. -- Posted by TheOtherHorseman at 9:07 am on Sep. 28, 2006 It fills a little hole in the language to use "they" in that fashion. Granted, it is improper use, but the reasoning behind it is sound. In everyday conversation it is a way to refer to a gender non-specific hypothetical person without excessive formality. Behold! Formal: "If one was to punch a gorilla it is likely that one would soon become sad." Casual: "If someone punched a gorilla, they'd totally get their shit kicked in." -- Posted by penguincube at 7:53 pm on Sep. 28, 2006 Currently, I consider using "they" as a singular pronoun incorrect in all instances, even gender-neutral. It is going to happen in vernacular speech, and is accepted as are some other grammatical faux pas in that context, but that does not make it correct, nor acceptable in academic writing. -- Posted by Stormblazer at 5:01 pm on Sep. 29, 2006 It's grammatically incorrect actually, though it is used most of the time as a gender-neutral pronoun (even though technically it's not). -- Posted by Yummie Strawberries at 8:31 pm on Sep. 30, 2006 I personally think it's perfectly fine to use in speech (possibly because I do it all the time), but not in a formal essay or the like, as others have said. You hear it more in dialogue than you see it written down. -- Posted by Bizilbur at 8:52 pm on Sep. 30, 2006 'E' is better for writing. 'E said' instead of 'he/she' said Or 'er thing' instead of 'his/her thing' They is just weird. Better to invent something new than to bastardize something with an already existing function, especially if that function is almost opposite what we're trying to make it do. -- Posted by winters at 3:31 am on Oct. 7, 2006 I tend to use "one" in most of the situations, but sometimes I use "they" (only informally, of course, I would never write it in any formal occassion), and I have noticed that the usage of "they" in English is widespread even in counties like mine, where English is not the primary spoken language. Personally, I could not care less regarding the usage of "they". English is the language I love the least (except perhaps French) out of the ones I can speak, so I am not inclined to ponder much about such issues in it. I am fine both with "one" and with "they". Language changes, that cannot be disputed, and some 'ungrammatical' things are slowly becoming the norm, whether we like it or not. The only question in it is whether the language change is a progress or decay. -- Posted by SilverClover at 11:11 am on Oct. 7, 2006 Harvard English classes would rip you apart for using that. Trust me. For most of my classes, the gender neutral singular form is "ze". However, I go to a very progressive university which also has non gender specific bathrooms for our intersexed or transgendered students and are moving to gender neutral housing for sophomores, juniors, and seniors. In general, the best way to phrase it is "he or she". In colloquial English, they is fine but it still grates on my nerves as being blatently wrong. -- Posted by obvious child at 12:58 pm on Oct. 7, 2006 In the academic and business world you do not use they. Pick a gender and stick with it. Any ambiguity is one of the last things you want in instructions or managament procedures. -- Posted by somethinorwatever at 3:09 pm on Oct. 7, 2006 I You He she it we you they i think that "they" can also be used as a singular non-gender-specific pronoun when used to describe a specific unknown person. if you are not talking about a specific person, then "one" should be used. for example "if the narrator says 'i am 17', they mean that they are 17 years old." -- Posted by mapleafan at 10:57 am on Oct. 17, 2006 I do agree, you are right though, Language does change. 'Diss' is now in the dictionary. -- Posted by Spasty at 2:24 pm on Oct. 17, 2006 Quote: from mapleafan at 1:57 pm on Oct. 17, 2006 I do agree, you are right though, Language does change. 'Diss' is now in the dictionary. And thou is never used. -- Posted by Shady Ultima at 9:58 pm on Oct. 18, 2006 I think its fine On a seperate note, is it possible to put 3 words together? Eh... that's unclear. For example You Would Have been none the wiser You'd've been none the wiser I don't think its proper, but I think it sounds good. :\ -- Posted by tamashii at 11:57 am on Oct. 22, 2006 I use 'they' alot, because I'm not out to many people and if I wanna say i like someone I can't refer to her as 'she'. -- Posted by Caseofbaskets at 3:57 pm on Oct. 22, 2006 Quote: from Spasty at 12:40 am on Sep. 27, 2006 Quote: from porcelain at 12:35 am on Sep. 27, 2006 No.    It just doesn't sound right whne you use it as one.    gender-neutral plural pronoun.. yes. Not singular, though.       If I'm not understanding the point of your post, sorry. I messed up the word.   I mean the context of, "They have a book." Instead of, "He/she has a book." Strictly speaking, if "they" is a gender neutral singular pronoun, it would be "They has a book", not "They have a book" (which is gender-neutral plural). -- Posted by Spasty at 5:52 pm on Oct. 22, 2006 Quote: from Caseofbaskets at 6:57 pm on Oct. 22, 2006 Quote: from Spasty at 12:40 am on Sep. 27, 2006 Quote: from porcelain at 12:35 am on Sep. 27, 2006 No.     It just doesn't sound right whne you use it as one.       gender-neutral plural pronoun.. yes. Not singular, though.           If I'm not understanding the point of your post, sorry.    I messed up the word.    I mean the context of, "They have a book."    Instead of, "He/she has a book."   Strictly speaking, if "they" is a gender neutral singular pronoun, it would be "They has a book", not "They have a book" (which is gender-neutral plural). Not at all. Regardless of what it stands for, "to have" is conjugated as "have." Always. You can't change that. -- Posted by beckster at 8:11 pm on Oct. 23, 2006 one is always good, they can work sometimes as long as you set up the rest of the sentance accordingly. If you are writing for a professor it often varies from prof to prof, so it doesn't hurt to ask Pages: 1 2  Next