Pages: 1 2 3  Next -- Posted by davjs at 1:51 am on Nov. 10, 2006 "You are a selfish bastard David!"   I have received a number of messages going off about how incredibly thoughtless and selfish I am to try to make members advertise "my" website. It's true that I take ownership of LiveWire through all the work I do, but I do not even own LiveWire.   The Idea Itself   I spent last weekend coming up with the idea and figuring out how to make it work. Then I worked all week on the coding as it is rather complex and integrated all over LiveWire. Why I deemed it absolutely vital to ask everyone to refer friends   Because you guys don't do it without encouragement. The advertising manager knows, he's seen the numbers, new membership has been declining since February. We have a wonderful thing going here, but you can't place the entire burden of finding new members on me all the time. We must continue to replace members who leave or become inactive to maintain the current level of activity that you are accustomed to on LiveWire. Furthermore, I feel that having more members online at a time creates a better atmosphere.   I am inspired when I sign in and see many new topics appearing in Fresh Topics, when I see forums bustling with activity, and the active members list above 200! However, when I sign-in during low-key hours around 3am and see 47 members online my topics don't get replies and I feel a lack of energy on the site that makes me want to sign-out. If those are selfish reasons for trying to get you guys pumped about referring LiveWire to friends then continue sending me your hate mail. The Numbers New Members in February: 616 New Members Last Month: 310 (Many more members signed up, but those are how many we retained and who have become regular posters.) David is greedy   People keep telling me that I'm out to make more money by "forcing" people to advertise "my" website which is completely wrong. First, we as a community own LiveWire. Legally speaking I work for LiveWire and for you. So it's OUR website. Second, I don't see a cent more in my pocket whether we make $100 more next month or $200 less. A board of directors, made of LiveWire members like you, decide how much I am paid. That amount remains fixed unless they decide to change it. David Hates America and Democracy "You didn't let us vote on whether we wanted this change! Get out of the country you democracy hating whore!" LiveWire isn't actually a democracy, so sorry to burst your beautiful ideals. Voting for new features isn't a tradition on LiveWire. There have been a few votes for changes that didn't go over well, but in general I think getting every change approved by the majority of whoever was online at the time would really be the pits for development on LiveWire. I would never be able to surprise you, and then I would have to spend 20% of my time writing proposals and campaigning for changes instead of working on them. -- Posted by Jay JWLH at 1:53 am on Nov. 10, 2006 You are really letting this get to you, aren't you? At least this clarifies some points. -- Posted by Spice at 1:54 am on Nov. 10, 2006 I <3 you. I don't mind this checklist. Just the hassle of getting them to verify - which I have already stated. But I don't really need to worry. I've done it. There's not one change I haven't agreed with. I still have my sidebar on the left. In the end it will be better. And decreasing by how much since February? -- Posted by ragemore at 1:55 am on Nov. 10, 2006 Except that instead of making a better environment you are chasing away helpful members, and making people with troubles that need help want to quit, because if they could talk to their friends about it, what would they need LiveWire for? Maybe the reasons for wanting more people are good, but your methods aren't. Encourage by offering point rewards or some other privilege. Don't take away existing privileges and then ask people to earn them back. -- Posted by gro at 1:55 am on Nov. 10, 2006 I don't think you're selfish. But I do think when you see a pretty red ball roll across the road, you probably run out in front of traffic. just for fun, here's part of a PM from an SL with over 12k points.  hopefully they won't kill me for posting it.  You should use AIM or MSN! I'm starting to wonder if I can really be bothered with David's asshattery. when changes annoy more long term members of the community than they create, they are bad.  how many real referrals do you think you will actually get out of this? want more active members? great. offer incentives for recruiting.  give people $1 of donations for every 100 posts a referral results in.  etc.   stop being enchanted by every minor shining ball gimmick you can think of.  you moderate a forum of teenagers, you should have realized that by now.  start putting meaningful effort forth; all the little changes like this you do do very little for the health of livewire.  sure, plenty of your changes are flashy and I'm sure take plenty of time to code - but when it comes to it, they are all pretty useless. -- Posted by TiMmMeE at 1:56 am on Nov. 10, 2006 People who haven't been recently active will find four blinking announcements they have to read.  Kind of messy. -- Posted by victim raven at 1:56 am on Nov. 10, 2006 Quote: from davjs at 5:51 pm on Nov. 10, 2006 Why I deemed it absolutely vital to ask everyone to refer friends   Because you guys don't do it without encouragement. The advertising manager knows, he's seen the numbers, new membership has been declining since February. We have a wonderful thing going here, but you can't place the entire burden of finding new members on me all the time. We must continue to replace members who leave or become inactive to maintain the current level of activity that you are accustomed to on LiveWire. Furthermore, I feel that having more members online at a time creates a better atmosphere.   Actually, I got lots of friends of mine to join LiveWire WITHOUT any encouragment and I didn't get any sort of reward.  LiveWire seems to get lots of members without people having to send them email links and stuff. -- Posted by tell me again at 1:58 am on Nov. 10, 2006 That's a re-wording of what you've already said. You still haven't addressed the fact that many of us do not have anyone to refer because we want to remain anonymous, especially the older members who have already referred those close to them. The anonymous feature isn't enough to cover all the past posts, or to prevent friends from recognising the situations that we describe. -- Posted by SYSTEM R at 1:59 am on Nov. 10, 2006 I DON'T THINK SO. -- Posted by depressed dark angel at 2:00 am on Nov. 10, 2006 Quote: from ragemore at 8:55 pm on Nov. 10, 2006 Encourage by offering point rewards or some other privilege. Don't take away existing privileges and then ask people to earn them back. i really agree with this.... ur reason for wanting us to refer people are very understandable.. and dave i respect you for what you are trying to do... but PLZ cant you go about it a different way... its just, many people dont want friends on here reading their posts... i cant possibly imagine having some of my personal friends on here, i wouldnt feel i could post as myself! -- Posted by The Dalai Lama at 2:03 am on Nov. 10, 2006 You get paid to run this site? -- Posted by Thuggen at 2:07 am on Nov. 10, 2006 Its the photo thing I don't want to do. I can find friends, but I don't want to put photos on LW. I just don't want to and I don't think its fair to make me. -- Posted by The Dalai Lama at 2:08 am on Nov. 10, 2006 Quote: from Thuggen at 2:07 am on Nov. 10, 2006 Its the photo thing I don't want to do. I can find friends, but I don't want to put photos on LW. I just don't want to and I don't think its fair to make me. You can upload any picture.  It doesn't have to be a photo of yourself. -- Posted by ragemore at 2:09 am on Nov. 10, 2006 I just made something on paint. Notice again that when he can not come up with an argument, for the second time he leaves us without saying anything. This deliberate avoidance is getting annoying. -- Posted by Lukerules12 at 2:19 am on Nov. 10, 2006 Quote: from victim raven at 5:56 pm on Nov. 10, 2006Quote: from davjs at 5:51 pm on Nov. 10, 2006  Why I deemed it absolutely vital to ask everyone to refer friends    Because you guys don't do it without encouragement. The advertising manager knows, he's seen the numbers, new membership has been declining since February. We have a wonderful thing going here, but you can't place the entire burden of finding new members on me all the time. We must continue to replace members who leave or become inactive to maintain the current level of activity that you are accustomed to on LiveWire. Furthermore, I feel that having more members online at a time creates a better atmosphere.     Actually, I got lots of friends of mine to join LiveWire WITHOUT any encouragment and I didn't get any sort of reward.  LiveWire seems to ge ture... but not in hells change am i getting my firends to join... i would rather die... i have friends... and then  i have LW.... LW + friends= death and we cant have that now can we -- Posted by Whuppee at 2:21 am on Nov. 10, 2006 Give it time. =P We may not like his answer once we get it.. but at least give him a reasonable amount of time to make one. It's not like he might be wading through 500000 mails, talking to some other moderators, and/or reading through and considering all of the opinions that everyone's offered so far... so as to enable him to make a better decision. Benefit of the doubt.. ftw. -- Posted by ragemore at 2:24 am on Nov. 10, 2006 I rescind my previous blush. It's principle, not the amount of people. -- Posted by Thuggen at 2:34 am on Nov. 10, 2006 Exactly! I hate how he makes a topic and then abandons it! -- Posted by insertnamehere at 2:43 am on Nov. 10, 2006 I dislike this idea immensely - I can understand why, but it's rather patronising. I've referred friends in the past if someone would be interested and use the site - I just didn't use the "Official Referral" thingies. But forcing the issue like this is patronising and will discourage people from using the site. More to the point, it will make people refer others for the wrong reasons (i.e. a vested interest) as opposed to before where people were normally only referred if it was thought that they'd actually gain something from the site. -- Posted by The Dalai Lama at 2:45 am on Nov. 10, 2006 It would be alright if the checklist was optional, or if you received bonus points for completing it.  But holding the blue bar ransom is just sleezy. -- Posted by romancedude1600 at 2:49 am on Nov. 10, 2006 i dont think your any of those things i think the changes are great and i applaud them it allows more people to join making everything a bit more populated and you get more varied views on the topics and if everyone's friends are here it stops people having to go to about 3+ sites to chat to all their mates -- Posted by Rhapsody at 3:12 am on Nov. 10, 2006 Scratch what I said. I know and most of LiveWire knows that you did what you thought was best for LiveWire, however many members may not have agreed with the way it was implemented and I am saying that you implemented it like a bomb just dropped it, no warning, no nothing. Most of us aren't actually shooting down the Checklist idea but rather the referral part of it and we think that it is too much. -- Posted by babythug at 3:19 am on Nov. 10, 2006 Quote: from tell me again at 1:58 am on Nov. 10, 2006 That's a re-wording of what you've already said. You still haven't addressed the fact that many of us do not have anyone to refer because we want to remain anonymous, especially the older members who have already referred those close to them. The anonymous feature isn't enough to cover all the past posts, or to prevent friends from recognising the situations that we describe. exactly, and takeing away points that we've already earned isn't the way to go either. find a differenty way, if he must have more pple joining -- Posted by Quinion at 3:21 am on Nov. 10, 2006 "However, when I sign-in during low-key hours around 3am and see 47 members online my topics don't get replies and I feel a lack of energy on the site that makes me want to sign-out." Well, yeeeees...that's what happens at 3 in the morning.  People go to sleep.  Some supermarkets are open 24 hours a day.  Do they say "oh fuck it, we might as well just fold the whole company" because there's only 3 people in the store in the small hours compared to hundreds during the day? Remember, 3am in the USA is approximately 9am in the UK.  On weekdays the majority of posters will be in school.  At weekends they won't have got up yet.  So that's two of your major English-speaking markets down there.   OK, in Australia and New Zealand we should be talking peak hours.  So if there aren't many people online and you want the place busy, the solution is clear: start marketing yourself towards Australia and New Zealand! -- Posted by kira at 3:42 am on Nov. 10, 2006 Quote: from davjs at 1:51 am on Nov. 10, 2006 Legally speaking I work for LiveWire and for you. So it's OUR website... LiveWire isn't actually a democracy, so sorry to burst your beautiful ideals. Interesting... hehe -- Posted by MoonlitEden at 3:53 am on Nov. 10, 2006 I still have my sidebar on the left. As do I.  Even with all the "OMG, I'm leaving!!!111four threads there were, I still like it better on the left. Now, on to the matter at hand.  I'vd voiced my opinion this in other threads, but reading other people's opinions have swayed my slightly.  While I think it's a pain, I do agree that most people don't take it upon themselves to invite anyone.  Also though, I agree with this comment completely. But forcing the issue like this is patronising and will discourage people from using the site. It's already discouraged several people from using the site, and it will discourage tons more.  And what's with the image basket thing?  Now someone has to submit a picture?  What is that suppose to achieve?  There are many people out there who don't want their picture on the internet and I think that their opinion should be respected.  Yes, they can go to google and just upload any ol' picture, but really, what's the point? -- Posted by KathyN at 4:35 am on Nov. 10, 2006 You are not selfish!!!! The members who think you are, those who want points more than anything in this site, those who make double\multiple accounts...those are selfish. I think the idea itself is great, but I see it won't work as it meant. -- Posted by Rainbow Blight at 5:21 am on Nov. 10, 2006 Quote: from davjs at 1:51 am on Nov. 10, 2006 "You are a selfish bastard David!"   I have received a number of messages going off about how incredibly thoughtless and selfish I am to try to make members advertise "my" website. It's true that I take ownership of LiveWire through all the work I do, but I do not even own LiveWire. This is just terrible and I know this might sound strange coming from me but I can't believe that multiple people would send you harrassing emails like that over something like this and I don't think you deserve that kind of harrassment.  The fuss over this is even greater than the whole sidebar issue. I mentioned this in the Supporters Group but in case you don't see it, what do you think of giving the option to either refer new members or donate more money to the site?  I don't know anyone offline who would be interested in participating on an Internet messageboard (believe me, I've asked people back in my senior year of high school if they'd like to join and I didn't really capture anyone's interest) but I would be more than willing (and more importantly, able) to donate again in lieu of a referral to help you pay off the overcharge fee. -- Posted by Larien at 5:38 am on Nov. 10, 2006 David my big issues is you are forcing people to expand the network to people they may not want here. Why should "bubba jo" have to post anon each time he posts in his topic about how to come out to his dad, because his brother is here as a referral? What about us who aren't here for the advice itself, but to give it? I came here because I thought, "wow, I'm so much older than a lot of these kids on this part of the site, and they could use so much information that I know." I'm not here to be "OMG, I got laid last nite and I might be preggers!" Let those people refer more of their friends, because they might need the help on this board. As said in a few other posts I've made this will end my time on the board. I'm 23 (good lord, I've been saying 22, sheesh) years old, my roommate and friend is already a member (taia) and we didn't a referral, I gave her the link and she joined up, that's it. My 23 year old friends don't want to be here, they see it as for younger people than us. But they love helping me give good answers to questions. So I'm not going to refer them, it'd be a waste of all our time. And I'm certainly not going to give the site to my younger brothers as I do not see some of the topics as appropritate for them. They're 13 and 15 and I do not want them reading some of the crazy topics that I know they would find. I think a referral is ok, but make it for members who have signed up before a certain date, not all of us. I personally view my rank as success for the people on the board not myself. The more I post, the more I may have helped someone. Now I feel like I've been told "You suck, you don't deserve that rank and I'm taking it away until you do what I say!" I wish all the success with the board Davis, but this will probably be my last day/week, because I believe that while great ideas, are unfair to some of us. -- Posted by Explorer4x4 at 5:46 am on Nov. 10, 2006 WTF?!? OUR? Who is the one who is the boss? YOU! Not us. Therefore, you are the owner/president/ruler of LiveWire. Pages: 1 2 3  Next