-- Posted by Anonymous at 12:18 pm on Nov. 30, 2007 (I am anonymous so this will not feel like a personal attack on any one member because of grudges or what have you, since you do not know who I am.) There are certain support leaders on here whom I think, while I'm sure they give fine support, they just use the hide feature too much. There are two in particular that come to mind, but obviously, since I cannot see a list of all posts hidden and by whom, I'm just going on what I do see. Mostly, what I see is in the Support Leader Quick Hide Group. Again, not trying to make this in to a personal attack, but I have noticed that several times, certain members will request a post hidden that, in my opinion, really should not be hidden. That is not a problem; however, the reaction to the "keep" vote is. The Support Leader Quick Hide Ground becomes intimidating in that respect, as when a link is posted there it is "supposed" to be removed. When someone posts a link, checks back later, and it's not grayed out any more, what do you do? Apparently, somebody thought that it was not-hide worthy. I've noticed that certain members take this as a personal attack, and react accordingly. Wasn't that the whole whole point of requiring two votes, though? We are all support leaders here, and we should all be mature enough to accept that other people have different opinions than we do. If we see a con-contributive reply, we can vote to hide it, but if someone else votes to keep it, that is fine. The problem is when it comes to things that are directed at us. If somebody had made a post after me in a topic, saying, "Anonymous, you power hungry bastard;being so stuck-up!" should I remove it? I'm not really partial there, since it is about me. Lets go with it, and say I vote to hide it. Then, later, it come back and it is un-gray. I get pissed. I don't know really where I'm going with this, either. In closing, I suggest that support leaders should no longer be able to hide posts in any topic in which they have posted it at all, to avoid being biased. There are always the moderators if things get out of hand, but as it stands now, I feel that some members are just a little too "hide happy". -- Posted by iwashere85 at 1:52 pm on Nov. 30, 2007 Well, first, moderators can view which support leader made the hide. If you feel a post was removed wrongly, please report it to the moderator so they can put it pack up. I hope this is not me, but who am I to say. I have also noticed members over-hiding, but that does not mean they were always wrong. The point of the Quick Hide Group is not only to hide the posts, but to also debate upon whether or not they should be kept or not. I can easilly say if a support leader "keeps" my post, I usually ask why, and I hope for an answer. I do not argue about why posts should be kept with support leaders. If one truly feels a post should kept or removed, and another support leader will not assist, this is when moderators must invervene. Support Leaders are not required to remove posts. Moderators are. Support Leaders should not make arugments over posts. They should not take any "keeping" of a post personal after they have requested it to be removed. You are right though, many people have different opinons on what should be removed. Your closing remark confuses me. Just becasuse I post in a topic, does not mean I should not be able to remove it. I am not biased because of the fact that I posted in it. I often post, because of the fact that there are no good posts in the topic at all. It saddens me to see a topic that is unloved by supportive members. Yes, SLs can, and will be "hide happy". We must leave it up to moderators to take care of this issue. If we see someone hiding too much, then we could easily suggest it to a moderator. -- Posted by Anonymous at 2:06 pm on Nov. 30, 2007 Quote: from iwashere85 at 1:52 pm on Nov. 30, 2007 Support Leaders are not required to remove posts. Moderators are. Support Leaders should not make arugments over posts. They should not take any "keeping" of a post personal after they have requested it to be removed. You are right though, many people have different opinons on what should be removed. Yeah, but I have seen it happen, unfortunately. If we see someone hiding too much, then we could easily suggest it to a moderator. The problem with that is, firstly, what do we say to the moderator? "Dear moderator, I feel that is hiding too many replies. Love, Anonymous." I need evidence to back it up, but the evidence is in the hidden posts (which I can no longer see/locate)! Also, it's laregely a subjective thing even on my part, so it's hard to really make a case about it. -- Posted by BrokenBelief at 2:06 pm on Nov. 30, 2007 Personally, I don't think anyone is too "hide happy."  I would vote to delete a lot of posts if I felt that it wouldn't be overstepping my small powers as an SL.  I just hide things that seem extremely worthless, like "I don't know." This page is really supposed to be about support and participation.  If someone is being rude without base, it should be removed.  If someone isn't helping adequately, it should be removed. My thought process behind hides is this:  People shouldn't post if they don't have something good and well thought-out to say.  But alas, they do.  If they should not have been posted, they should at least be removed. -- Posted by The Professional at 2:12 pm on Nov. 30, 2007 First off, it's generally frowned upon when a member moderates their own topics.  To avoid being possibly accused of being biased, you should not moderate your own topics.  Post it in the group, message another SL to post it in the group, message a moderator, report it, but do not hide it.  It's just not a smart thing to do.  I trust you guys, but you should also want to avoid setting yourself up for an accusation. On the subject of support leaders taking it personally when a post is not hidden that they've suggested to be hidden - well, as support leaders who now have the right to hide posts, you're expected to also have thick skin and be able to deal with direct disagreements in a mature manner.   However, with that said, I 100% believe that support leaders should be able to JUSTIFY their actions, rather it be hiding or not hiding.  I don't see a single reason why a support leader cannot say, "Why were those posts kept?" and not expect an answer.  If you hide something, you should be able to justify why, if you keep something, you should be able to justify why. Now, as Alex has already said: if you suspect abuse, report it.  Rarely do moderators just randomly notice abuse by the support leaders, because you guys are given a certain amount of trust.  If you report it, it's easy for us to look into, but you have to report it (usually) before we are even aware of a situation.  You could even report it via PM if you're more comfortable using that method. -- Posted by Anonymous at 2:14 pm on Nov. 30, 2007 Quote: from BrokenBelief at 2:06 pm on Nov. 30, 2007 My thought process behind hides is this:  People shouldn't post if they don't have something good and well thought-out to say.  But alas, they do.  If they should not have been posted, they should at least be removed. An example that comes to mind is a post of a support leader I know. They accidentally posted before they had typed much, and before they even had a chance to edit it, it was deleted. What the heck is that? I mean, for one, the removing sl could have messaged the person, given that they were online. They could have just left it, because we are support leaders after all, and they could trust that we would fix the problem in due time. I don't know, but that sort of thing just seems ridiculous. -- Posted by The Professional at 2:15 pm on Nov. 30, 2007 Quote: from BrokenBelief at 4:06 pm on Nov. 30, 2007 I just hide things that seem extremely worthless, like "I don't know." To me, this is a very wise thought process for you guys to follow.  Don't get yourselves involved in complicated shit that is going to get y'all in trouble - you're here for support, that should be your main focus.  When you start getting overly involved in SL moderation, you're losing sight of the grand scheme. -- Posted by BrokenBelief at 2:19 pm on Nov. 30, 2007 Quote: from Anonymous at 2:14 pm on Nov. 30, 2007 Quote: from BrokenBelief at 2:06 pm on Nov. 30, 2007 My thought process behind hides is this:  People shouldn't post if they don't have something good and well thought-out to say.  But alas, they do.  If they should not have been posted, they should at least be removed. An example that comes to mind is a post of a support leader I know. They accidentally posted before they had typed much, and before they even had a chance to edit it, it was deleted. What the heck is that? I mean, for one, the removing sl could have messaged the person, given that they were online. They could have just left it, because we are support leaders after all, and they could trust that we would fix the problem in due time. I don't know, but that sort of thing just seems ridiculous. In a sense, I have to agree.  On the other hand, it comes down to how posts are deleted.  Usually, the first time you read through a post, you see which ones need to be dumped, so you hit the button without giving much thought to the poster or the time, paying attention only to the content.  If you think about it, 99.9% of bad posts aren't mistakes, and aren't intended to be fixed, so there's really no point in waiting to dump it.  It's a rather routine operation, and as such, a routine action was taken on it.  From what I've heard, there really was nothing to demand a closer inspection.  In essence, if it hadn't been a one in a million accident that the person accidentally submitted, and intended to edit, it wouldn't have been a problem or misjudgment at all. -- Posted by The Professional at 2:21 pm on Nov. 30, 2007 Quote: from Anonymous at 4:06 pm on Nov. 30, 2007 The problem with that is, firstly, what do we say to the moderator? "Dear moderator, I feel that is hiding too many replies. Love, Anonymous." Yes, actually.  That would be enough for me to investigate the situation. -- Posted by Anonymous at 2:34 pm on Nov. 30, 2007 -- Posted by iwashere85 at 2:35 pm on Nov. 30, 2007 Quote: from Anonymous at 5:34 pm on Nov. 30, 2007 Oh great, thanks for adding it to the groups. I did NOT want it placed there for a specific reason. The SL Groups consist of all support leaders. They could access this just as easily by clicking on this forum, as I did. -- Posted by The Professional at 2:36 pm on Nov. 30, 2007 I've removed them.  It makes sense why the person would post them there, but if you didn't wish them in there (not sure I understand why, as all of this is just as public), fair enough. -- Posted by Anonymous at 2:37 pm on Nov. 30, 2007 Thanks Pro. I just did not want to draw undue attention here to this and turn it in to some big argument. -- Posted by devil returns at 2:41 pm on Nov. 30, 2007 Sorry that was my fault for posting them in there. Anonymous, I'm sorry I didn't realise you didn't want them posted there. I'm sorry. I'm NOT under any circumstances trying to turn this into a big argument at all. -- Posted by MariJani at 3:04 pm on Nov. 30, 2007 Quote: from The Professional at 2:15 pm on Nov. 30, 2007 you're here for support, that should be your main focus.. Tru dat, homie. I've read this whole thing, but I don't really have much to say about the issue.  You aren't directing this at me, I know, because I have hidden probably no more than 15 posts, and none of them were questionable.  I find myself rolling my eyes a lot at some of the things that people vote to hide.  I take the time out to message people if they have a double post.  There is no reason why we should be hiding double posts 1 second after the poster replied.  I may be biased on that subject because that happened to me the other day.  I was JUST editing it, and when I hit add reply I had a message saying that my post was deleted! Great, another deleted post, as if I don't have enough already. Spam much? The point is, instead of us all running to the quick hide group, and fighting over whether or not something is non contrib. we should do something productive.  Like, I don't know, answer an eHelp? Just a thought. So much for me not having much to say about the subject. -- Posted by iwashere85 at 3:06 pm on Nov. 30, 2007 Quote: from MariJani at 6:04 pm on Nov. 30, 2007 Quote: from The Professional at 2:15 pm on Nov. 30, 2007 you're here for support, that should be your main focus.. Like, I don't know, answer an eHelp? Just a thought.   Fight the power. Answer eHelps! :P -- Posted by Anonymous at 3:10 pm on Nov. 30, 2007 Anyhow, I guess I'll see if I can find a little bit of evidence before I message a mod about it. I don't like pointing fingers, so if I'm going to, I'd best have some backup. -- Posted by bighead1991 at 3:13 pm on Nov. 30, 2007 I do feel some support leaders are a bit too trigger happy when they come to hiding posts. For some reason I don't like the " Support Leader Quick Hide Group ". just don't like the way people post a bunch of links to just be checked off. If David wanted them to have access to the misconduct report system to help things along, he would of. -- Posted by MariJani at 3:16 pm on Nov. 30, 2007 I don't like the quick hide group either. Mainly because I get yelled at every other post for 'spamming'. -- Posted by Anonymous at 3:18 pm on Nov. 30, 2007 Quote: from bighead1991 at 3:13 pm on Nov. 30, 2007 I do feel some support leaders are a bit too trigger happy when they come to hiding posts. For some reason I don't like the " Support Leader Quick Hide Group ". just don't like the way people post a bunch of links to just be checked off. If David wanted them to have access to the misconduct report system to help things along, he would of. That is how I feel. It's only purpose seems to be to help remove things which are in obscure places that won't be seen by another support leader. If it's in a high traffic area, then it surely will be seen soon enough, no? -- Posted by White Ninja at 3:42 pm on Nov. 30, 2007 Quote: from MariJani at 4:16 pm on Nov. 30, 2007 I don't like the quick hide group either. Mainly because I get yelled at every other post for 'spamming'. Mari quit spamming. -- Posted by Briley 07 at 4:06 pm on Nov. 30, 2007 I guess this was aimed at me, this could've been resolved by a quick PM. Anyway, I couldn't  understand why someone would vote to leave, I asked why they was left, I just asked in the wrong way, if you would've gave me your reasons for leaving the posts then it would be different. It just made no sense to me. -- Posted by hithere at 4:40 pm on Nov. 30, 2007 Quote: from Anonymous at 12:18 pm on Nov. 30, 2007 we should all be mature enough to accept that other people have different opinions than we do. yes yes yes. thank you. it annoys me when people can't do that. In closing, I suggest that support leaders should no longer be able to hide posts in any topic in which they have posted it at all, to avoid being biased. no thanks. i don't think one's own topics cause much more bias (er, conflict of interest) than any other situation. -- Posted by Anonymous at 5:56 pm on Nov. 30, 2007 OH SHIAT I CAN STILL EDIT POSTS EVEN THOUGH I AM NOT A SUPPORT LEADER AHHH -- Posted by audrey820 at 1:35 pm on Dec. 4, 2007 Just message me. My friends call me the enforcer. I'll handle it. Seriously, message a mod. We're here to handle this sort of thing. Not only to look pretty in blue.