LiveWire Peer Support NetworkPrintable Version of Topic "Planned Parenthood: Your Thoughts?"
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-- Posted by CmplctedCheerGrl at 10:20 pm on Feb. 25, 2008 I had the topic of abortion on my mind today; I read something about it and it got my attention. So I went to the Planned Parenthood website to see what exactly is involved, knowing my heart was about to be broken, but not sure how deeply. (Disclaimer: I'm not trying to make anyone feel guilty, or put out religious propaganda; these are just my opinions and the research I've done to back them.) I know people say that Planned Parenthood offers a well-rounded, comprehensive, and varied look at the options for an unplanned pregnancy. But what I found on their website was not exactly that. The truth is that they have a very large, intensive, and emphatic section with many pages, explanations, and even a video concerning abortion, and a one-page list of FAQs concerning adoption. I'll let you draw your own conclusions. To the organization's credit, however, Planned Parenthood does offer an extensive list of pages with lots of information on pregnancy and what to do to prepare for a baby. Yet, even this area of the website is peppered with hints and nudges toward abortion (for instance, they have a section where you take a quiz, and if you do not measure up to their standard of being ready, they tell you you should decide not to have your child). And in the section titled "Pregnant, Now What?" which I thought would be filled with helpful tips on prenatal care, nutrition, vitamins, doctor recommendations, etc., actually began with asking these questions: "Is having a baby the best choice for me?" and "Is having an abortion the best choice for me?" It places the emphasis on deciding if you feel like going through a pregnancy rather than placing the emphasis on offering suggestions to help you with it. There is also a substantial section on the website warning against facilities which offer alternatives to abortion, labeling them all as covert, evangelical institutions that use scare tactics to harm women and make them not have abortions. I realize that there probably are such institutions out there, and that's awful. But there are many legitimate clinics and crisis centers that place emphasis on alternatives to abortion, and I don't think those places deserve to be lumped in with the bad places, or made victims of libel. Also, I noticed that they never refer to abortion as anything but "ending your pregnancy." They do not inform women what is actually happening. For instance, they use phrases like, "the uterus will contract and empty" rather than "the fetus will leave the uterus" or "the fetus will be killed." I understand not wanting to traumatize people. But I think it is only fair to tell women what is actually happening inside their bodies, that what is being "emptied" is not just blood or something, but a growing human. I think it's a lot more serious than some people realize, and than Planned Parenthood would have us believe. To anyone reading, I'm not really trying to convince you of anything; these are just my opinions. Honestly, I was just kind of thinking about this subject, and I wondered what everyone thought. Don't take my word for it, go check out the Planned Parenthood website (plannedparenthood.org), and give your opinion. I know it's a tough topic, but don't be afraid to start a discussion. (If I didn't tag you, feel free to reply anyway. I just ran out of tag space.) So what do you guys think?
-- Posted by TheIntellect at 12:50 am on Feb. 26, 2008 I'm against abortion. But I'm not religious. Abortion should be used only if the mother is endangered, or a case of rape. Other than that, I'm fully against it. Having a baby is a consequence of having sex. If you don't want a baby, then: don't have sex, or Wait until you're married or can afford to take care of it. or Put it up for adoption. Counter Argument 1: "Well what if it's a 13 year old girl who is pregnant" So what? Then the problem lies with education, and we should be fixing that system and not turn a blind eye to it. And once the issue of education is fixed, then it's irrelevant what age the pregnant woman is. You decided to have sex, you know a baby is possible then. That was YOUR choice. Don't want it, put it up for adoption..... Counter Argument 2: "Foster Care is horrible" a.) Ok, yes, it can be. But I have quite a few adopted friends. If their moms had an abortion, they obviously wouldn't be here now, and I wouldn't be able to enjoy the friendships I currently have. Not all foster parents are bad, so to say you want to kill a potential baby for this reason, you may be denying it a good life. b.) Even if it has a bad foster parent, at least it's alive, and able to progress and hopefully better itself as it gets older and thus enjoy a good life c.) You can now choose what parent you want your adopted baby to go to d.) Just like the first example, spend time, money, and effort on fixing the system of Foster Care rather than abortions I'm sorry, again, if you have sex you know the potential outcome. In this world you are responsible for your actions. There are no second chances in life, so why should killing a potential human be one? If I'm a sane person, but had a bad day one day and snapped and ended up shooting and killing someone, I'm still going to jail, and possibly in jail for life. Thar one moment of madness on my part means I have to live with the consequences. Take responsibility for your actions, no matter how large or small the outcome is. That said, abortions CAN NOT be made illegal. Cause they will happen anyway (just like underage drinking and such happens). And that would be incredibly dangerous and present many problems. So while I'm against abortion, I don't think it should be illegal, but rather just simply not done and encouraged to do all the other options outlined above. As for the Planned Hood semantic, it's horrible propaganda. It's putting spin on a dangerous and uncomfortable procedure, making it seem like it's not a big deal. Almost encouraging it, which is wrong too. The smart people will be able to see through that type of thing (the flowery language). It's the poorly educated that will be more persuaded. You know the type -- those that believed the movie Fahrenheit 9/11 and all the other propaganda nonsense. And seeing that it's 3.50am, and I have to wake up for class at 8.30am, I better get to bed. Tomorrow is going to be a loooong day.
-- Posted by exceedinglyrare at 11:23 am on Feb. 26, 2008 Out of curiosity, have you ever been to a Planned Parenthood Clinic? Have you ever spoken with them about what actually happens there? Looking at its website is not the best way to learn how things progress there; I highly recommend actually visiting one of these clinics and talking to the people there about what they do and do not promote.
-- Posted by obvious child at 4:59 pm on Feb. 26, 2008 Quote: from exceedinglyrare at 9:23 am on Feb. 26, 2008
You know full well that most people here are morons who don't take the time to even bother researching. PP's actual activities when broken down are largely non-abortion. Much of their activities are actually in prevention, STI treatment and prevention, and planning for the future of one's reproduction. Actual abortions are quite a small percent of their activities. But people are in fact morons.
-- Posted by CmplctedCheerGrl at 9:15 pm on Feb. 26, 2008 Quote: from obvious child at 6:59 pm on Feb. 26, 2008
I have been to Planned Parenthood. I had my first positive pregnancy test there when I pregnant with my daughter. Their first response was NOT "Congratulations". In fact, it was, "Are you planning on abortion, adoption or keeping the child?" In that order. They said "abortion" first. Assuming that, since I looked young, that I was going to be an inept mother, when in reality, I was just there for a pregnancy test because they could get me in sooner than my regular OB. Although their percentages of abortions are a lot lower than a regular clinic, the point of the matter is, they do not adequately educate young women (and older women) enough on other options. Most people look at websites waaaay before they'd call, mostly for the reason that they are embarressed or don't exactly know what to say. However, the person in need of a pregnancy could always go somewhere like Rachel's Place. A completely pro-life clinic where they ONLY educate the women on adoption and how to raise a baby in a healthy environment. If you even bring up the option of abortion they'll literally tell you it's wrong and the reasons for it (in their opinion, obviously, not on behalf of all clinics).
-- Posted by exceedinglyrare at 5:59 am on Feb. 27, 2008 SO WHAT that they said abortion first? That doesn't mean that's their primary objective, just that it's what most people in your circumstance would've chosen to do, based on what they know of that situation. It also doesn't mean that they assumed anything, just that they wanted you to know what your options were. Consider this: if you're interested in reading up on adoption, are you going to go to Planned Parenthood's website? No. You are going to probably Google adoption services and go to those websites. On the other hand, if you're interested in reading up on abortion, Planned Parenthood provides excellent resources in that arena. They're a family planning clinic, not an adoption agency. It's not their job to give you every fact in the world on putting your child up for adoption. Interestingly, you should know that if you'd chosen to have an abortion at Planned Parenthood, they require that you go through counselling before the fact, and (I'm not sure if you noticed) the waiting room is absolutely littered with pamphlets talking about adoption. Their job is not to promote any one choice over the other. Their job is to provide healthcare for women, whether it's hormonal birth control, pregnancy tests, pap smears or abortions. If a person is more interested in researching adoption, they probably aren't going to be bumming around Planned Parenthood anyway. Really...you're making a mountain out of a molehill and being more than a little silly. Also, I'd really appreciate if you'd provide links to the supposed "substantial section on the website warning against facilities which offer alternatives to abortion, labeling them all as covert, evangelical institutions that use scare tactics to harm women and make them not have abortions." This isn't something I've seen on the website; from what I've seen, www.plannedparenthood.org actually provides pretty honest and unbiased opinions on all a woman's options. The only reason I can think of that anyone would consider it biased is if they were twisting things around to suit their own purposes.
-- Posted by CmplctedCheerGrl at 1:50 pm on Feb. 27, 2008 Quote: from exceedinglyrare at 7:59 am on Feb. 27, 2008
That's the thing. They knew nothing of my situation. As a matter of fact, they knew when I walked in that I was engaged!! They told me I had a pretty ring. They knew my age after I filled out the form, and I really don't know too many 18 year old girls who are engaged getting abortions. But I'm sure that's one of the lower percentiles of girls having the procedure done. So I don't know. As I said, I am prochoice. I just believe the way the educate women on everything is wrong, in my opinion. I'm sorry if that clashes with yours. But it's understandable. This is an extremely touchy subject.
-- Posted by exceedinglyrare at 2:01 pm on Feb. 27, 2008 Honestly, though, I don't see the problem with the way they educate people. They're not an adoption agency; it's not their job to educate people on adoption on their website. If people want to research adoption online, they'll go somewhere else. And, as I pointed out before, the last time I went to Planned Parenthood, the waiting room was filled with pamphlets about adoption, so I'm not entirely sure where you're getting the idea that they have something against adoption. And, again, I would really like it if you could link me to the area of their website where you found, "a substantial section on the website warning against facilities which offer alternatives to abortion, labeling them all as covert, evangelical institutions that use scare tactics to harm women and make them not have abortions."
-- Posted by CmplctedCheerGrl at 2:55 pm on Feb. 27, 2008 http://www.plannedparenthood.org/issues-action/abortion-access.htm (just one of the many articles from this site: http://www.plannedparenthood.org/issues-action/abortion/feature-articles-6556.htm)
Their reasons for having an abortion (or why they're legal, which is in a way saying why it's okay, which I have no problem with) are almost twice as much as ways to prevent.
-- Posted by exceedinglyrare at 4:32 am on Feb. 28, 2008 I'm still not seeing the problem. They're a pro-choice website; what do you expect? I saw absolutely nothing denouncing all adoption agencies as "covert, evangelical institutions that use scare tactics to harm women and make them not have abortions." What I did see were legitimate complaints about the way women who wish to have an abortion are treated.
-- Posted by Anonymous at 2:26 pm on Feb. 28, 2008 I don't get the issue with the nine to five ratio. Are there more than five ways to prevent an abortion? Who knows? At least they listed ways to prevent it.
-- Posted by EdgyVeggie at 9:34 am on Feb. 29, 2008 I don't believe that abortion is the right decision. That being said, I do not believe that the government has the right to completely cut off women from having this option. Anyway, there are many people who would continue to get illegal abortions most likely if the practice was banned.
-- Posted by exceedinglyrare at 9:49 am on Feb. 29, 2008 Quote: from Anonymous at 5:26 pm on Feb. 28, 2008
That's my question, too. I don't know that there are more than five ways to prevent pregnancy, so I don't see why it's a problem that only five were listed.
-- Posted by unarmed gunman at 3:37 pm on Mar. 8, 2008 Shouldn't they be called UNplanned Parenthood? I'm just saying...
-- Posted by luvawithabrokenheart at 6:55 pm on Mar. 8, 2008 I do not believe in Abortion at all. The fact that they cut open the womans stomach to get to her uterus, then inject a needle that actually melts the fetus(that might have even been what they meant when they used the phrase "emptying the uterus") sickens me. I had no idea that Abortion Clinics were even allowed to push you towards Abortion. I was alway's aware that you were definitely supposed to be given other options, such as Adoption and just keeping your child, and given the knowledge of what exactly was going to happen to your unborn fetus. However, I believe if a woman makes the choice to have sex with or without protection, she should take responsibility for her actions and either keep her child or possibly give it a better life and give it up for Adoption. Adoption allows the Biological Parent/Parents to choose the Parent/Parents, read their credidentials, view their applications and even visit the home to find out the nature of their living status. If the woman is raped, i understand that most likely she would want to have an Abortion because she knows looking at her child on a day-to-day basis would bring back the memories of her past rape that she has most likely been working her hardest to forget. Adoption would also be one of th best answers in this situation as well.
-- Posted by dunebug at 7:01 pm on Mar. 18, 2008 Maybe I'm just too liberal but I don't quite see what the problem is. The organizations they warn against ARE the terrible ones. I've known people who have gone to places like "Birthright" just wanting a pregnancy test and really are basically assaulted with "God loves you!" "Don't tear apart your baby!" "They'll rip it limb from limb!" "Blood!" "Gore!!" "Pain!" non-stop. That's not helpful to a scared woman who's just looking for a few answers. They AREN'T truthful in the information they give. They'll basically tell you that abortion is FAR more dangerous than giving birth and you're VERY likely to end up infertile or physically damaged if you get even one abortion. Neither of these are true at all. So I don't see the problem warning against things like that. Nor do I see the problem in pushing people to ask questions. Those are the questions you SHOULD be asking yourself before you make a decision. - Am I ready to be a parent? Things like that. You talk about using biased language, well using the wording "the fetus will be killed" immediately turns people against abortion. Abortion IS ending the pregnancy, again I don't see a problem with wording it as such but I do see a problem with inflammatory language like "death" "killed" "murdered" etc.
-- Posted by mountain hare at 12:08 am on Mar. 20, 2008
dunebug:
But the fetus IS killed. Why on earth would anyone omit that little fact?
-- Posted by CmplctedCheerGrl at 12:10 am on Mar. 20, 2008 Quote: from mountain hare at 2:08 am on Mar. 20, 2008
Some people don't see the fetus as being "killed". They don't believe the fetus was ever alive in the first place. They believe, for example, that a fetus is simply a fetus until the umbilical cord is cut and it's living on it's own. Which would in turn make it a baby - not a fetus anymore.
-- Posted by mountain hare at 1:02 am on Mar. 20, 2008
Some people don't see the Earth as (approximately) spherically shaped, either. Some people don't see the Holocaust as 'real', either. Do government services give a shit in either case? Do public schools omit the above facts, simply because there is 'controversy'? Are you willing to treat all opinions as equally valid, simply because there is disagreement regarding the issues? It is a fact that the fetus fits the definition of a separate, living entity. To deny this merely demonstrates that one is grasping at straws in order to justify the termination of the fetus. In case you haven't worked out what I'm trying to say, I'll put it even more simply: I'm right, you're wrong.
-- Posted by dunebug at 8:45 am on Mar. 20, 2008 Quote: from mountain hare at 1:02 am on Mar. 20, 2008
Then you're a mass murderer. I can only imagine the number of living creatures that you've killed in your years alive. Ants, bugs, spiders, germs. Every time you sneeze or have a cold or walk on the ground, you're killing things that were alive. Congrats. Turn yourself in to police now. In case you haven't figured it out, it's inflammatory language, nothing more. I'm right, you're stupid and wrong and so biased that you can't even see the forest through the trees.
-- Posted by CmplctedCheerGrl at 10:54 am on Mar. 20, 2008 Quote: from mountain hare at 3:02 am on Mar. 20, 2008
Excuse me? What you just said is so unbelievably immature I feel like I'm speaking to an awry 5-year-old. It's their opinion. And you know why they think it? Because while the fetus is in the womb it is LIVING OFF OF THE MOTHER. Just as other organisms do. Such as shit... tape worms. Does that mean that the tape worm is living and the person isn't allowed to get it taken out of them? See, the thing with it is I'm prochoice. HOWEVER, I 100% do NOT agree with getting an abortion after week 22, for that's when the fetus has a chance of living on it's own. Before week 22 it's an organism feeding off of the mother. But after the 22nd week, it's all in. Anyways, I don't care if you take what I say to heart, I respect your opinions on this subject just as you should respect mine. I understand you think you're right and I'm wrong, that's cool, just don't boast about it. It completely tears down your side of the argument and makes you look foolish. Other than saying that, you put up a good argument. But try to leave the catty behavior out of it in the next reply you make. (And I'm not trying to be a bitch at all, I'm actually trying to compliment you while criticizing you).
-- Posted by mountain hare at 4:48 pm on Mar. 20, 2008 dunebug:
Wow, you truly are an idiot. Please, can someone rescind her intellectual status? The fact that we allow people with Down Syndrome post on this subforum diminishes its status an a haven for intellectuals. Tell you what, dune. If you can find me stating anywhere in my previous post that abortion was murder and/or that the fetus is the equivalent of a bacteria (or the other shit you posted) I will beg for forgiveness and close my account. Because, correct me if I'm wrong, all I stated was that abortion killed the fetus. But then again, I'm sure you know better than me what I posted.
No, it's a fact. The PP site completely neglects to mention what happens to the fetus once it is expelled from the uterus. Don't you think that such a detail is important? Why would PP omit this fact?
-- Posted by mountain hare at 4:55 pm on Mar. 20, 2008
Compl:
Humans are parasitic on their parents long after they are born, usually into their teen years. So fucking what? You wouldn't shoot a baby suckling at its mother's teat would a BB gun, would you?
Are you implying that a tape worm is not alive?
No, I don't have to respect your opinion. That's utter shit. I do have to respect your RIGHT to have and express your opinion, though. There's a (not-so) subtle difference.
-- Posted by mountain hare at 5:34 pm on Mar. 20, 2008 I'm just curious, but who here considers the following parasitic behaviour?
-- Posted by dunebug at 10:40 pm on Mar. 20, 2008 Quote: from mountain hare at 4:48 pm on Mar. 20, 2008
Resulting to childish insults doesn't much support your side. I don't really view you as an intellectual considering you're insisting that a fetus in a separate person and apparently should have the rights as such and completely ignoring the language on the site. Thank you for insulting all people with mental disabilities and Downs though. That really shows how mature and intellectual you are. *wink*
It is a fact that the fetus fits the definition of a separate, living entity. But the fetus IS killed. That pretty much suggests that you're pushing the abortion = murder angle as well as the whole "it's it's own person!!" schtick which is tired and done. It gets a bit old when people are all "killed!! Killled!!!!!!" and then try to act like they're not preaching that it's murder. If you're going to harp on the fact that it's it's own "person" who was alive and is "killed" then you must in turn believe that it's murder. The fetus is a little parasite that leeches off it's mother and cannot even survive outside of the womb until a bit over halfway through the pregnancy and even then the odds are terrible until around 28 weeks at least. It's not it's own person. And if you want to argue law, a fetus is not it's own person there either. I believe Bush tried to have that law passed where the fetus would be elevated to have citizenship, but it got shot down because it's fucking retarded.
1) Because it probably varies from doctor's office to doctor's office. There is no one general sense. 2) I've seen sites for all types of medical surgeries and procedures. I haven't seen one that tells you what happens to your appendix after an appendectomy, or your placenta after delivery, or your wisdom teeth after removal or your foreskin after circumcision. I could go on. It's not some shiftiness at work, that's completely normal to only detail the procedure on the website. If you're that curious to know, you need to take it upon yourself to ask.
-- Posted by Moridin at 2:11 am on Mar. 21, 2008
- Most abortions (>>90%) happens at the embryonic stage, not in the fetal stage.
-- Posted by mountain hare at 2:57 am on Mar. 21, 2008
dunebug:
Oh, silly girl. I don't resort to insults to 'support my side'. I resort to insults to show my complete and utter disdain for you, and your shitty argumentation.
No it doesn't. All I stated was that the fetus (or embryo, if you wish) is killed, and questioned why Planned Parenthood would neglect to mention such a thing. I made no comments whatsoever regarding personhood or murder. So yeah, you're attacking a straw man.
-- Posted by RedNoir at 3:29 am on Mar. 21, 2008 Thanks for posting this. In my church, I have heard some pastors talk badly about Planned Parenthood. SO I guess it is true, they do encourage abortions. That is just wrong. Like it has already been said, if you choose to have sex, then you choose to take a risk and deal with it. I don't care if you are young. These days most 5-6 year old kids know about sex and how babies are born. So there is no excuse. If a woman is raped then of course she doesn't want it, although I saw something a few years back on 20/20 or dateline or something about a woman who was raped when her husband was away in the military. When she told him he was pregnant, he was excited, but then he realized that the time didn't match up (i.e. sex). And he's a great guy who respects women and he does good in school. So that just shows you don't have to always turn to abortions because look, even out of something bad (rape, unplanned pregnancy, etc.), God can make a miracle.
-- Posted by exceedinglyrare at 5:25 am on Mar. 21, 2008 Quote: from RedNoir at 6:29 am on Mar. 21, 2008
Why is it wrong for an abortion clinic to encourage abortions? That's like saying, "It's wrong for McDonald's to encourage people to buy fries" or "It's wrong for Domino's to promote pizza."
-- Posted by CmplctedCheerGrl at 4:08 pm on Mar. 21, 2008 Quote: from mountain hare at 4:57 am on Mar. 21, 2008
Then you're stating that every thing that could be considered a human being put to waste is killing. If that's how you see it, you better stop ejaculating and killing your sperm which could be future children. Also, you better start going against birth control since that rids of the egg which also could be future children. |
Out of curiosity, have you ever been to a Planned Parenthood Clinic? Have you ever spoken with them about what actually happens there? Looking at its website is not the best way to learn how things progress there; I highly recommend actually visiting one of these clinics and talking to the people there about what they do and do not promote.
