-- Posted by Deeznutz FYC at 10:24 pm on May 1, 2008 This statement doesn't make any sense to me. I've never said this because I was never against any wars of the US, so I can't understand any of the logic of it. At best, the person saying this statement is following a red herring. If you are morally against a particular war, why would you "support" anyone participating in it? Who is more at fault? The old man starting a war, or the person that's willing to pick up a weapon once the war has started? Granted, there are exceptions to this. In a country with mandatory service, you have no choice. If your country is invaded, that certainly changes things. Let's say someone joined the Marines in 2003 eager to fight in Iraq, a war you are opposed to on moral grounds. How can you morally support that soldier who is eager to enact polices that you are against? You may have *some* credibility for a soldier who joined prior to the war you are against, but not much. That soldier certainly knows the potential of their enlistment. This is like saying, "I don't support the Holocaust, but I certainly support the brave men of the Waffen Schutzstaffel." War supporters have laid a trap, and anti-war supporters fall right into it. Against accusations that they don't support individual soldiers, and against bad PR of their actions in Vietnam, anti-war faction come up with this statement as a weak defense. Why not just flat out say you are against everything about the war, from top to bottom? -- Posted by snowcone200 at 10:25 pm on May 1, 2008 I pretty much agree, it's something I wondered every time I see a "I support our troops, not the war" statement or bumper sticker. -- Posted by BrokenBelief at 10:42 pm on May 1, 2008 Because you simply can't deny someone respect when they are out in the desert taking bullets for an almost understandable cause.  Many soldiers really are forced to join the military simply because they have no other options. Of course, I'm playing devil's advocate, since I really have no opinion on the war, since I don't know enough about it to pretend like I have one. -- Posted by Missyjane at 11:11 pm on May 1, 2008 Once you enlist, you have no choice where you are sent. These troops may have enisted before this conflict was started. Whether they agree with it or not is not their choice. You can't just quit the army. You are stuck there in service for a predetermined amount of time. -- Posted by Bacon at 1:35 am on May 2, 2008 Plus troops actually fighting in the war avoid the United States' need for conscription (which I wouldn't at all be surprised about, especially with the Bush administration in power). These guys do the fighting so that you're not forced to. -- Posted by nikki at 8:33 am on May 2, 2008 I agree to an extent. However, to a lot of these people, the military is a job for them. They don't join to be political or anything like that, for them it's a way to earn money and support themselves and their families. Not everyone who is fighting in Iraq is supportive of the war, so you can still support the people fighting without supporting the cause. -- Posted by hithere at 5:52 pm on May 2, 2008 Quote: from Deeznutz FYC at 10:24 pm on May 1, 2008 How can you morally support that soldier... I think most people don't mean that they morally support the troops when they say "I support the troops." They just mean they don't want the soldiers to die. -- Posted by QueenOfGeeks at 5:52 pm on May 5, 2008 I don't think that statement makes any sense. And also, the soldiers themselves take offense to this statement. They're risking their lives for what they believe in and if some people don't support their cause, they're ok with that. They just hate it when people say, ''Yes, we support you, just not what you're risking your life for and believe in." It's insulting to them. I know this because my cousin is a soldier. -- Posted by PetitOiseau at 5:57 pm on May 5, 2008 You support their dedication to people and their country and admire it and admire their strength. But you disagree with the war. -- Posted by QueenOfGeeks at 6:16 pm on May 5, 2008 Quote: from PetitOiseau at 5:57 pm on May 5, 2008 You support their dedication to people and their country and admire it and admire their strength. But you disagree with the war. Even if you do, and you tell soldiers that, they will get insulted. An example is a conversation my cousin had, he was still wearing his uniform, "I admire your courage, what you're doing is wonderful. But I don't personally support the war." He told us that when he was told that, it was like a slap in the face. He felt insulted by the fact that anyone would have the nerve to tell him that they admired him, yet they put down everything he believes in. -- Posted by obvious child at 4:14 pm on May 6, 2008 A couple flaws in that argument 1) Soldiers aren't Brass. They don't decide where they go, who they fight, when they fight 2) Not all soldiers join up to fight a specific conflict, many just had the bad luck of being in the military at the time of the conflict 3) Many soldiers actually hate the occupation. There's a video on Youtube of US soldiers all saying "Fuck Iraq" as a message to McCain's 100 years statement. Many of them are resentful for having to spend 3 tours in Iraq 4) Can you support troops by supporting a war that is unnecessary and endangers their lives for seemingly little gains? It could be argued that to support the troops you favor the Powell Doctrine which minimizes their risk while maximizing gains to the US. That Doctrine was thrown out the window by Dubya and Co. -- Posted by Chocolate Thunda at 6:33 pm on May 6, 2008 Quote: from Missyjane at 11:11 pm on May 1, 2008 Once you enlist, you have no choice where you are sent. These troops may have enisted before this conflict was started. Whether they agree with it or not is not their choice. You can't just quit the army. You are stuck there in service for a predetermined amount of time. They KNOW that they will most likely have to serve when they enlist. They don't just get it sprung on them like a surprise. -- Posted by obvious child at 7:00 pm on May 6, 2008 Quote: from YellowDuckie at 3:33 pm on May 6, 2008 Quote: from Missyjane at 11:11 pm on May 1, 2008 Once you enlist, you have no choice where you are sent.    These troops may have enisted before this conflict was started. Whether they agree with it or not is not their choice. You can't just quit the army. You are stuck there in service for a predetermined amount of time.   They KNOW that they will most likely have to serve when they enlist. They don't just get it sprung on them like a surprise. How about the chumps who had a 4 year term after ROTC who graduated in 1999 or 2000? Guess where they went: Iraq. I bet you none of them saw that coming. -- Posted by Chocolate Thunda at 7:03 pm on May 6, 2008 Quote: from obvious child at 7:00 pm on May 6, 2008 Quote: from YellowDuckie at 3:33 pm on May 6, 2008 Quote: from Missyjane at 11:11 pm on May 1, 2008 Once you enlist, you have no choice where you are sent. These troops may have enisted before this conflict was started. Whether they agree with it or not is not their choice. You can't just quit the army. You are stuck there in service for a predetermined amount of time. They KNOW that they will most likely have to serve when they enlist. They don't just get it sprung on them like a surprise. How about the chumps who had a 4 year term after ROTC who graduated in 1999 or 2000? Guess where they went: Iraq. I bet you none of them saw that coming. Is the military not there to defend the country or am I mistaken? Do these people not understand what they may have to do? -- Posted by Missyjane at 12:33 am on May 7, 2008 Quote: from YellowDuckie at 6:33 pm on May 6, 2008 Quote: from Missyjane at 11:11 pm on May 1, 2008 Once you enlist, you have no choice where you are sent.    These troops may have enlisted before this conflict was started. Whether they agree with it or not is not their choice. You can't just quit the army. You are stuck there in service for a predetermined amount of time. They KNOW that they will most likely have to serve when they enlist. They don't just get it sprung on them like a surprise. They know they will have to serve. They didn't know WHERE they would be serving. The reserves aren't sent outside the countries borders, but full time servicemen have to do what they are told. They may not have a choice but the participate in a war they don't agree with. BTW many servicemen are not the brightest sparks. They believe what they are told. Many are from families where they are pressured into military service. -- Posted by obvious child at 12:40 am on May 7, 2008 Quote: from YellowDuckie at 4:03 pm on May 6, 2008 Is the military not there to defend the country or am I mistaken? Do these people not understand what they may have to do?   But it's not like they know where they will be serving in 4 years. So yes, where they serve can be sprung on them. Heck the chumps who joined the military a few years after WWII didn't see Korea coming. Hell our own brass didn't. -- Posted by nikki at 1:36 am on May 7, 2008 Quote: from YellowDuckie at 3:03 am on May 7, 2008 Is the military not there to defend the country or am I mistaken? Do these people not understand what they may have to do?   That doesn't mean those fighting have to agree with where they're sent. People who enlisted to fight in the army before we even considered invading Iraq had no idea they'd be caught up in an illegal war. -- Posted by Chocolate Thunda at 10:26 am on May 7, 2008 Quote: from Nikki at 1:36 am on May 7, 2008 Quote: from YellowDuckie at 3:03 am on May 7, 2008  Is the military not there to defend the country or am I mistaken? Do these people not understand what they may have to do?   That doesn't mean those fighting have to agree with where they're sent. People who enlisted to fight in the army before we even considered invading Iraq had no idea they'd be caught up in an illegal war. Whether they agree with it or not doesn't matter. It's what they're trained to do. If you go in and you're not prepared to do what you enlisted to, then why did you do it in the first place? -- Posted by nikki at 10:31 am on May 7, 2008 Quote: from YellowDuckie at 6:26 pm on May 7, 2008 Quote: from Nikki at 1:36 am on May 7, 2008 Quote: from YellowDuckie at 3:03 am on May 7, 2008     Is the military not there to defend the country or am I mistaken? Do these people not understand what they may have to do?          That doesn't mean those fighting have to agree with where they're sent. People who enlisted to fight in the army before we even considered invading Iraq had no idea they'd be caught up in an illegal war. Whether they agree with it or not doesn't matter. It's what they're trained to do. If you go in and you're not prepared to do what you enlisted to, then why did you do it in the first place?   The point is, you can still support the troops who are out there doing there job, without supporting the cause. -- Posted by Chocolate Thunda at 10:34 am on May 7, 2008 Quote: from Nikki at 10:31 am on May 7, 2008 Quote: from YellowDuckie at 6:26 pm on May 7, 2008 Quote: from Nikki at 1:36 am on May 7, 2008 Quote: from YellowDuckie at 3:03 am on May 7, 2008   Is the military not there to defend the country or am I mistaken? Do these people not understand what they may have to do?     That doesn't mean those fighting have to agree with where they're sent. People who enlisted to fight in the army before we even considered invading Iraq had no idea they'd be caught up in an illegal war.    Whether they agree with it or not doesn't matter. It's what they're trained to do. If you go in and you're not prepared to do what you enlisted to, then why did you do it in the first place?   The point is, you can still support the troops who are out there doing there job, without supporting the cause. I'll support the people who were caught up in it (Even though they're stupid for not thinking a war could possibly happen.), but I will not support those who knew what it was about. -- Posted by nikki at 10:38 am on May 7, 2008 I totally agree with you, I was just playing devils advocate really.