Pages: 1 2  Next -- Posted by sad and young at 10:43 pm on June 13, 2008 are we products of our environment, each thought feeling and behavior created by complex mechanisms created through life experience like we were a biochemical machine whose instructions are being constantly updated, or at any moment can we overcome our ego and so whenever we do have problems is it because we have unconsciously chosen not to for whatever reason? please don't say both because that isn't what i mean at all -- Posted by AlecVaginas at 10:44 pm on June 13, 2008 Run-on sentence! -- Posted by ReallyCute at 10:44 pm on June 13, 2008 no -- Posted by efil4seeknay at 10:44 pm on June 13, 2008 i know im a victim -- Posted by sad and young at 10:46 pm on June 13, 2008 Quote: from AlecVaginas at 10:44 pm on June 13, 2008 Run-on sentence! i'm sorry, if there is a part i haven't been clear enough for people to understand let me know and i will try to explain better -- Posted by blufindr at 10:46 pm on June 13, 2008 people, as a race, are destructive. therefore, we screwed ourselves over. we cannot be victims if we made these issues ourselves. -- Posted by sad and young at 10:47 pm on June 13, 2008 Quote: from blufindr at 10:46 pm on June 13, 2008 people, as a race, are destructive. therefore, we screwed ourselves over. we cannot be victims if we made these issues ourselves. i am talking about "we" as in me and you the individuals in particular, not "we" humans as one unified thing. -- Posted by NEGATIVE0 at 10:48 pm on June 13, 2008 both! our environment has alot of control/impact on our lives, but that doesn't mean you don't have the power to change it. -- Posted by emmy350 at 10:48 pm on June 13, 2008 I think that it's a combination of both. For simplicity sake, it's a world of cause and effect. If someone we love and care for a lot dies, we will feel emotions, such as sadness, that's the effect from what happened to us, an event in the world. But then again, we have willpower and free will to overcome our natural reaction and force ourselves not to be sad. Ok, God, I don't know what I'm saying. -- Posted by sad and young at 10:49 pm on June 13, 2008 Quote: from negative0 at 10:48 pm on June 13, 2008 both! our environment has alot of control/impact on our lives, but that doesn't mean you don't have the power to change it. if we have the power to change it then your answer is "we create our own problems", not both. -- Posted by blufindr at 10:50 pm on June 13, 2008 Quote: from sad and young at 10:47 pm on June 13, 2008 Quote: from blufindr at 10:46 pm on June 13, 2008 people, as a race, are destructive.    therefore, we screwed ourselves over.    we cannot be victims if we made these issues ourselves. i am talking about "we" as in me and you the individuals in particular, not "we" humans as one unified thing. the answer applies either way. a problem in the whole is the problem of its parts. -- Posted by iconoclast at 10:51 pm on June 13, 2008 we create our own problems but you cant blame anyone because solving these problems depends much more on the critical mass of social forces in society and whatnot rather than on the individual, this is more now than historically, much more inertia now -- Posted by sad and young at 10:51 pm on June 13, 2008 think of it like this: imagine a planet with strong gravity, much stronger than earth. now the question to its inhabitants is "are we forever stuck on this planet unable to get off it, or is there some way in which we can defeat the gravity that we just don't really know about or don't want to for a secret desire to remain here or something like that?" you see what i mean? -- Posted by ReallyCute at 10:51 pm on June 13, 2008 the great debaters -- Posted by NEGATIVE0 at 10:52 pm on June 13, 2008 Quote: from sad and young at 2:49 am on June 14, 2008 Quote: from negative0 at 10:48 pm on June 13, 2008 both!    our environment has alot of control/impact on our lives, but that doesn't mean you don't have the power to change it. if we have the power to change it then your answer is "we create our own problems", not both. then perhaps you should try and be a little more precise with what you're goin' for. -- Posted by iconoclast at 10:52 pm on June 13, 2008 yeah chris is mad smart just be specific and he has all the answers -- Posted by sad and young at 10:53 pm on June 13, 2008 Quote: from negative0 at 10:52 pm on June 13, 2008 Quote: from sad and young at 2:49 am on June 14, 2008 Quote: from negative0 at 10:48 pm on June 13, 2008 both!     our environment has alot of control/impact on our lives, but that doesn't mean you don't have the power to change it.    if we have the power to change it then your answer is "we create our own problems", not both. then perhaps you should try and be a little more precise with what you're goin' for. yes i know, i'm trying my best to articulate what i mean but it is difficult for me. -- Posted by iconoclast at 10:53 pm on June 13, 2008 Quote: from sad and young at 1:53 am on June 14, 2008 Quote: from negative0 at 10:52 pm on June 13, 2008 Quote: from sad and young at 2:49 am on June 14, 2008 Quote: from negative0 at 10:48 pm on June 13, 2008 both!     our environment has alot of control/impact on our lives, but that doesn't mean you don't have the power to change it.   if we have the power to change it then your answer is "we create our own problems", not both.    then perhaps you should try and be a little more precise with what you're goin' for. yes i know, i'm trying my best to articulate what i mean but it is difficult for me. dyslexia? -- Posted by iamben at 10:55 pm on June 13, 2008 I remember watching 'The gods must be crazy'. At the beginning it says that humans are the only animal that didn't adapt to its environment, we adapted the environment to us. Which is true, clearly, and so in that sense; we are the victims of our own design. Whether or not that was something that we choose to do, or a built in instruction that we follow, is unrelated, we still did these things. -- Posted by sad and young at 11:00 pm on June 13, 2008 Quote: from prisoner of hss at 10:53 pm on June 13, 2008 Quote: from sad and young at 1:53 am on June 14, 2008 Quote: from negative0 at 10:52 pm on June 13, 2008 Quote: from sad and young at 2:49 am on June 14, 2008 Quote: from negative0 at 10:48 pm on June 13, 2008 both!         our environment has alot of control/impact on our lives, but that doesn't mean you don't have the power to change it.        if we have the power to change it then your answer is "we create our own problems", not both.     then perhaps you should try and be a little more precise with what you're goin' for.    yes i know, i'm trying my best to articulate what i mean but it is difficult for me. dyslexia? no nothing like that, i just think there's a tendency to interpret this question a certain way and i'm trying hard to reframe it but it's difficult -- Posted by shadowpool at 11:08 pm on June 13, 2008 Ignorant people perceive the world as they are taught.  Others see the world exactly as they want to.  Either way, the concepts of victim and problem are indeed just concepts.  Are the stars victims or do they create their own problems?  Neither.  And how are we different from the stars?  The special thing about humans is we can believe that we are victims or that we create our own problems.  We sure create things, but they aren't really problems. Unless you want to believe they are. That leaves your question about our role in the Universe.  Think about this: Is there a such thing as separate events? Aren't all events connected? Then can we be individuals? Can we be separate from anything? No. Take it a step further. Breathe. Pay attention to your breath. You were breathing before I made you conscious of it. You were also growing your hair, beating your heart and dividing your cells. You're not conscious of those things, but they are you. What if everything is also you and you're just not aware of it? What if I am you? Now there's something to think about. -- Posted by One Two Step at 11:11 pm on June 13, 2008 I think people are overall the cause of their suffering. -- Posted by sad and young at 11:33 pm on June 13, 2008 Quote: from shadowpool at 11:08 pm on June 13, 2008 Ignorant people perceive the world as they are taught.  Others see the world exactly as they want to.  Either way, the concepts of victim and problem are indeed just concepts.  Are the stars victims or do they create their own problems?  Neither.  And how are we different from the stars?  The special thing about humans is we can believe that we are victims or that we create our own problems.  We sure create things, but they aren't really problems.  Unless you want to believe they are. That leaves your question about our role in the Universe.  Think about this:  Is there a such thing as separate events?  Aren't all events connected?  Then can we be individuals?  Can we be separate from anything?  No.  Take it a step further. Breathe.  Pay attention to your breath.  You were breathing before I made you conscious of it.  You were also growing your hair, beating your heart and dividing your cells.  You're not conscious of those things, but they are you.  What if everything is also you and you're just not aware of it?  What if I am you? Now there's something to think about.   yes i'm aware of this kind of perception of existence, but i don't think it is possible to experience it for extended periods of time. -- Posted by beckiee at 12:55 am on June 14, 2008 i believe everything happens for a reason, and that our lifes have a certain destination that we take. all our choices and decisions have already been decided. So i'd say we're victims of the world, we can't control it. -- Posted by sad and young at 2:18 am on June 14, 2008 Quote: from beckiee at 12:55 am on June 14, 2008 i believe everything happens for a reason, and that our lifes have a certain destination that we take. all our choices and decisions have already been decided. So i'd say we're victims of the world, we can't control it. why do you believe that -- Posted by benjamine1 at 2:23 am on June 14, 2008 Quote: from shadowpool at 11:08 pm on June 13, 2008 Ignorant people perceive the world as they are taught. Others see the world exactly as they want to. Either way, the concepts of victim and problem are indeed just concepts. Are the stars victims or do they create their own problems? Neither. And how are we different from the stars? The special thing about humans is we can believe that we are victims or that we create our own problems. We sure create things, but they aren't really problems.  Unless you want to believe they are. That leaves your question about our role in the Universe. Think about this:  Is there a such thing as separate events?  Aren't all events connected?  Then can we be individuals?  Can we be separate from anything?  No.  Take it a step further. Breathe.  Pay attention to your breath.  You were breathing before I made you conscious of it.  You were also growing your hair, beating your heart and dividing your cells.  You're not conscious of those things, but they are you.  What if everything is also you and you're just not aware of it?  What if I am you? Now there's something to think about.   Please sir, I ask this question: what actually is? Please, if you approach this thinking you already know then it's finished, and you're stuck with your intellectual concept. What is? -- Posted by benjamine1 at 2:29 am on June 14, 2008 Quote: from sad and young at 10:43 pm on June 13, 2008 are we products of our environment, each thought feeling and behavior created by complex mechanisms created through life experience like we were a biochemical machine whose instructions are being constantly updated, or at any moment can we overcome our ego and so whenever we do have problems is it because we have unconsciously chosen not to for whatever reason? please don't say both because that isn't what i mean at all Sir, surely if another is to answer this question for you, then you've learned nothing. You're stuck with useless knowledge. You are the we, psychologically. So look into the matter for yourself? What are you? Are you the memorys, experiences, collected from the past? The violence, the greed, the anger? Is there a you seperate from these things, or is 'I' another thought? Therefore there is only the violence, the experience, the product of your environment? Now you ask, can this end? Not tommorow or the next day, but can this end now? We are stuck with the concept of psychological time. i will become this, i will be free of that. But is there psychological time? if you see there isn't, which really is a great thing to see, you will deal with each so called problem as it arises, you on't leave it or escape from it. Then you'll be free of your problems. -- Posted by sad and young at 2:40 am on June 14, 2008 Quote: from benjamine1 at 2:29 am on June 14, 2008 Quote: from sad and young at 10:43 pm on June 13, 2008 are we products of our environment, each thought feeling and behavior created by complex mechanisms created through life experience like we were a biochemical machine whose instructions are being constantly updated, or at any moment can we overcome our ego and so whenever we do have problems is it because we have unconsciously chosen not to for whatever reason?    please don't say both because that isn't what i mean at all Sir, surely if another is to answer this question for you, then you've learned nothing. You're stuck with useless knowledge. You are the we, psychologically. So look into the matter for yourself? What are you? Are you the memorys, experiences, collected from the past? The violence, the greed, the anger? Is there a you seperate from these things, or is 'I' another thought? Therefore there is only the violence, the experience, the product of your environment? Now you ask, can this end? Not tommorow or the next day, but can this end now? We are stuck with the concept of psychological time. i will become this, i will be free of that. But is there psychological time? if you see there isn't, which really is a great thing to see, you will deal with each so called problem as it arises, you on't leave it or escape from it. Then you'll be free of your problems. i was expecting more than a yes/no response, and i am a solitary part of a whole. i am not sure if i am this or that, and so far introspection hasn't given me any answers. i don't really understand what you mean by psychological time. -- Posted by benjamine1 at 3:14 am on June 14, 2008 It really isn't like that sir. Perhaps you're in this intellectually. I'd rather deal with facts, not theories or any of that nonsense. Sir, if you see something I'm talking about, it won't be a yes or no answer. It won't be a dead thing, on the contrary, very much alive, moving. Obviously there is time by the watch, very helpful indeed. But, we have a problem. We say, i will get rid of my problem. i will solve it. That implies time. The 'will' implies time. But I question that. Is there really time when it comes to the psyche? If you realise there isn't, actually look into it and see the fact, you will be free of your problems, becuase you will disolve them the instant they arise. The fact will operate on what is false. It's not so important to understand what I'm saying, but it is important to see this for yourself. -- Posted by sad and young at 3:54 am on June 14, 2008 Quote: from benjamine1 at 3:14 am on June 14, 2008 It really isn't like that sir. Perhaps you're in this intellectually. I'd rather deal with facts, not theories or any of that nonsense. Sir, if you see something I'm talking about, it won't be a yes or no answer. It won't be a dead thing, on the contrary, very much alive, moving.   Obviously there is time by the watch, very helpful indeed. But, we have a problem. We say, i will get rid of my problem. i will solve it. That implies time. The 'will' implies time. But I question that. Is there really time when it comes to the psyche? If you realise there isn't, actually look into it and see the fact, you will be free of your problems, becuase you will disolve them the instant they arise. The fact will operate on what is false. It's not so important to understand what I'm saying, but it is important to see this for yourself. i see. i think of the psyche the way we're talking about it now to be sort of a lens. and while that lens doesn't distort anything normally, it is possible to smudge or damage that lens, so things look different through it. so i don't see the problem as the psyche itself, but something acting upon the psyche, changing it from its normal state. Pages: 1 2  Next